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Subject: The Lessons Of Iraq
SYSOP    4/27/2016 6:52:03 AM
 
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Docduracoat       4/27/2016 4:57:04 PM
Why have we not broken Iraq up into Kurdistan, Shiastan, and terrorist Sunnistan? I predict that Syria will certainly split into Kurdistan, Sunnistan, and Assadastan.
 
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Nate Dog       4/27/2016 8:15:31 PM
Who's we? Colin Powell said it best. You break it, you bought it. Are you happy to be responsible for the creation of a state? One with zero history or know how of being a state? one with zero army, no means of keeping itself contiguous? Who do you put in charge? Arabs are notorious for not getting along, when massacres and revenge killings start because you imposed the wrong tribe as rulers of this new made up land, are you going to bear responsibility for it? That blood will be on your hands. We, should butt the #### out, and not interfere in this part of the world. Conversely, if you do want to be interventionist and make it actually really, honest injun work, you'll need to commit 30 divisions of infantry to keep the peace for 30 years, 250,000 teachers to teach the coming generation how to be normal non ####-tards, western education, secular beliefs, etc. Then in 30 years time, when you have a generation in place not raised by the Koran, then, you can pull out and let the country run itself. Personally i can't imagine that being anything an elected government could impose on another country. And why would you want to? Let them sort themselves out. You can't make a people want to not be assholes. Not without a million troops on the ground.
 
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trenchsol       4/28/2016 6:31:17 AM
I agree that, at least, some of ME borders do net reflect reality. They were drawn by foreign invaders in the past. However, redrawing them might repeat some of the past mistakes of the Turks, French and Britons. ME states can't be left alone to sort out their problems, because they tend to spill violence elsewhere. They should be contained until the manage to sort out major problems, and state of Israel should receive assistance to help it survive during that period. Shrinking oil profits might motivate people in the region to rethink their future. Electing a reasonably transparent governments could make people want better healthcare rather than financing some obscure radical or terrorist organizations.
 
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Nate Dog       4/28/2016 8:04:00 PM
And there it is again Electing. Which arab/ME country do you think is seriously capable of hosting an educated enough, large enough middle class, to host a democracy capable of self determination? These are illiterate peasants, who do as their only source of information constantly tells them to do (local imam at every prayer service). To be fare, its all they know, its all their taught, so what else are they capable of doing? Other than when given the choice, but to elect the muslim clergy into authocracy? It happened in Egypt, post Arab spring, it happened in Turkey, when the army failed to uphold the constitution and oust an islamic party that won the election. These countries are a country in name only, they're a conglomerate of tribes, that emulate nationalistic structures, because they see that its worked for us. They need to get lucky. They need a strong idealistic patriot to seize power and install social programs of education to try and enforce cultural change. Ataturk pulled it off in Turkey and it lasted for 80 years. Army forgot its way, but they're not so far past his secular state that they can't get back to it. Short of that, theres nothing to be done for these countries.
 
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