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Subject: The Iranian Stealth Fighter Scam
SYSOP    2/9/2013 5:13:53 AM
 
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TonoFonseca    Too bad   2/9/2013 11:47:50 AM
If only the Iranian government was as much of a joke as these wunderwaffe.  
 
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Skylark       2/9/2013 5:14:22 PM
The Qaher-313 is a queer mix of the F-117, the F-22 and the imaginary Soviet super-fighter from the Clint Eastwood movie, FIREFOX.  The cockpit is a hoot!  Check out the sloppy edging where the canopy is supposed to seat, and the lack of any locks to hold it down.  The wheel-well is also visible behind the pilot's seat, in some photos, and the instruments are clearly off of a civilian plane.  There are some serious distortion problems in the crudely shaped canopy, and no provision for oxygen to the pilot. The control surfaces are entirely unsuitable for supersonic flight; lacking all-moving canards and horizontal slabs tail fins, plus it lacks slats, air brakes or even landing flaps.  There are also no signs of wing hard points for carrying ordinance and the skin has numerous surface flaws.  It would be interesting to hear about any attempts to build a scale model of the 313 (based on the photos) by someone in the West for wind tunnel tests, as well as an assessment of at what speed the thing came apart. 
 
Here is a link to some photos of the plane, if you want to add your own observations.
 
 
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RtWingCon       2/10/2013 12:15:58 AM
It also looks like the landing struts are too lightweight and the vertical tails are too big as well. Maybe they're inundating the us with so much obvious bullshit weapons that we won't believe them when they build a nuke. Or, they could be doing us a favor in helping us sell more weapons to their dumbshit neighbors. A sad state either way.
 
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WarNerd       2/10/2013 4:18:25 AM
The Qaher-313 is a queer mix of the F-117, the F-22 and the imaginary Soviet super-fighter from the Clint Eastwood movie, FIREFOX.
You left out the movie “Stealth”.
The cockpit is a hoot!  Check out the sloppy edging where the canopy is supposed to seat, and the lack of any locks to hold it down.  The wheel-well is also visible behind the pilot's seat, in some photos, and the instruments are clearly off of a civilian plane.  There are some serious distortion problems in the crudely shaped canopy, and no provision for oxygen to the pilot. The control surfaces are entirely unsuitable for supersonic flight; lacking all-moving canards and horizontal slabs tail fins, plus it lacks slats, air brakes or even landing flaps.  There are also no signs of wing hard points for carrying ordinance and the skin has numerous surface flaws.  It would be interesting to hear about any attempts to build a scale model of the 313 (based on the photos) by someone in the West for wind tunnel tests, as well as an assessment of at what speed the thing came apart. 
Well, it is a stealth aircraft so they would want any weapons stored internally so as to not compromise the aircrafts stealth capabilities, so no hard points makes sense, except the aircraft is so small there is no room for an internal weapons bay. Or much fuel.
 
No signs of an engine nozzle or thermal dispersion systems.
 
Note the distance in photo 9 from the pilot to the control panel, he probably cannot reach the displays without unstrapping.
 
Note also how far his head is above the seatback then check the distance from the seatback to the canopy in photo 2. They are going to have to use short pilots to keep from hitting their heads.
 
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Reactive       2/10/2013 10:52:01 AM
What is interesting is the desperation evident in a press conference attended by Ahmadinejad himself in which a model was presented to the world's media as evidence of Iran's capabilities - what did they think would happen? 
 
Did they really think this would convince anyone other than (perhaps) those living in Iran itself or is this aimed solely at the domestic audience..? I've just seen the CAD (video below @ 2:05) - it's hilarious - like they got someone to spend a day cobbling together something vaguely resembling a CAD/CAM assembly (laughable) and then asked a local carpenter to build it. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JosSIu8lsks" target="_blank">link
Crazy...
 
 
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Reactive    Embed failed: Better luck this time!   2/10/2013 10:52:30 AM
 
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Skylark    Chimps in TopGuuuunnn!!   2/10/2013 4:04:53 PM
Thanks for the video, Reactive.  I never realized, before, just how thick the leading edge of the wing was until I saw that side view shot.  The way the wing was clumsily blended into the fuselage is curious.  I can't decide if that was a deliberate design feature, or that the wing and fuselage were simply made in different places, by different people, and the assemblers had to make the two parts fit together somehow.  Apart from looking aerodynamically dirty, the rounded shape also violates the stealth principles set down by the F-117, in using sharp angles and saw-toothed surfaces to break up radar signals.  Whatever benefit the fuselage offers, as far as stealth goes (Which is minimal, at best, mostly due to surface flaws) are totally lost by the thick, rounded wing shape, to the point where it should show up easily on your average 1960s vintage Phantom II radar scope.  WarNerd's comment on the cockpit ergonomics was also right on the money.  (Thanks, W.N.!) The Pilot does sit uncomfortably high in the video, but the canopy does not look to be very accommodating, and the instruments are somewhere between where the pilot's knees and ankles should be.  Taking into consideration the apparent requirement of the Qaher-313, for a pilot of short stature but long arms, I think I understand now why the Iranians are so keen on using chimps for their "space-program". 
 
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giblets       2/11/2013 9:11:31 AM
According to some on other forums, they Iranians state in the interview on the TV that it is indeed a mockup, and the flying type a model
 
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Skylark    We mock them because they deserve to be mocked.   2/11/2013 3:27:26 PM
I've read the forums and the comments too, mostly from Iranian Muslims (Or Muslims in general, judging from the poster's names) who realize that the Iranian super-fighter makes them look stupid by showing off an over-sized toy that is not so very different than a grade-school kid taking a refrigerator box from the trash, crawling inside and telling Mommy that they are flying in a spaceship.  (Which is just as likely as the Qaher 313 actually flying, BTW)  However, (Iranian apologists aside) the OFFICIAL line is that the plane is real and that it already has 1000 hours of flight time under its wings.  If it flew, don't you think that they might actually put the prototype out for people to see? To illustrate my point, here is a similar press release by Taiwan's media as they show off the latest variant of their indigenous fighter, the F-CK 1
 
 
Look at similar roll outs for Taiwan's F-CK 1, for example.  The dignitaries and the press gathered in a hangar and the planes actually enter under their own power.  These are real, the Qaher 313 is a fake, but there is no mention that it is a mock up anywhere in the official Iranian media.  The fact of the matter is roll outs are supposed to present real aircraft, not examples of wishful thinking.  The Qaher 313 is not a concept car from Detroit, presented at a car show to judge public opinion about color, body shape and how the tail lights look.  Aircraft, whether it is for use commercially or the military, must adhere to principles of aerodynamic reality, before the topic of just how effective it is in combat can even be contemplated.  This obligates the Iranians to present an aircraft (Whether it is a mock up or not) that is at least plausible, and the Qaher 313 fails that test so completely that they might as well have rolled out a full-size version of a Star Wars X-wing.  Simply presenting a video of a model plane flying does not mean that the real plane will fly if it is scaled up to full size, and no mention is made, by Iran, that the flight video is of a model, except by those criticizing it as a fake.  The apologists on the various forums dedicated to the subject of the 313, on the other hand, are evenly divided between those who say it's a mock up, and those who say it's real and that people in the West who deride it are just jealous.  That's not an intellectual argument, that's a cry for help.  .
 
 
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WarNerd       2/12/2013 4:29:31 PM
They can't even fool the Iranians.
 
 
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