Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Murphy's Law in Action Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: The BUFF Gets Better
SYSOP    11/14/2012 6:02:32 AM
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
bikebrains       11/14/2012 10:41:22 AM
"Although a half century old, most of the internal fear has been replaced with modern electronics and furnishings." should read " Although a half century old, most of the internal gear has been replaced with modern electronics and furnishings."  The internal fear part should be mostly limited to being in a plane that is 50+ years old and filled with explosives. Wikipedia says that "Production ended in 1962". 
 
Quote    Reply

Skylark    Rise of the drone   11/14/2012 5:10:50 PM
The B52 has certainly gained the reputation of being the greatest strategic bomber ever built.  I have wondered if it would be practical to build new ones, but I suspect that it would be more likely that the next low-cost / low-mission-intensity heavy bombers will come in the form of up-sized unmanned drones flying alone or in clusters, rather than as a single, high flying, high-speed jet bomber.  It is important to not confuse the B52s longevity with its effectiveness as a front-line weapon.  Its size, heat signature and radar cross-section makes it vulnerable to modern air-defenses, regardless of the rosy proclamations in this article.  I don't believe that an enemy has fired on a B52 in anger since the Viet Nam war, and none were brought down by enemy action since that time either.  (The lone B52 lost in the Gulf war was brought down by a technical glitch.)  Without complete mastery of the air or a technologically backward enemy to bomb, the B52 would be a sitting duck.  But our conflicts since Viet Nam have been against third-world powers with third-world air defense capabilities, coupled with a strategy designed to methodically peel away the thin veneer of modern anti-air capability before we send the BUFFs into combat.  In short, the value of the B52 is the same as that of a freight train:  it's cheap to operate and economical when taking into consideration the amount of fuel used to deliver each ton of ordinance.  No more... no less... In time, that value will be overtaken by a future generation of unmanned drone aircraft.
 
Quote    Reply

TonoFonseca    Old Reliable   11/14/2012 5:54:27 PM
Until they literally fall apart from wear and tear, the B-52 will continue to be a dependable aircraft, provided that the appropriate upgrades are regularly made.  I just hope that none of them will be sold/given to unfriendly or overly-ambitious countries.
 
Quote    Reply

Librarian    Triumph of the sexy   11/14/2012 6:31:34 PM
I have long been suspicious that the lack of true B-52 replacement is due to the fact that the generals don't want to buy a plain-old "bomb truck". (i.e. subsonic, minimal attention to stealth, fairly large).  Nearly all the replacements and proposed replacements of the B-52 have been faster and/or stealthier, viz B-58, XB-70, FB-111, B-1, B-2. The only exception I can think of would be the 1970s proposed Boeing 747 cruise missile carrier.  Efficient isn't nearly as "sexy" as speedy or stealthy, and thus doesn't get the generals or Congress' attention.
 
My feeling is that the U.S. forces would be well-served if they invested in a new four-engined airframe of about the B-52 size which would use modern construction techinques, (composites, high-bypass engines, fly-by-wire, etc.). The basic airframe should be large and flexible enough to be used for functions such as AWACs, ELINT, EW, ground surveillance radar, maritime patrol, tanker, etc. as well as being a bomber. And by this I mean that the basic design could be adapted to these functions, not that each could do everything. At the same time, I would have the airframe designed to tolerate greater g-loading than commercial airliners while not having the g-rating of close combat aircraft. Stealth characteristics would be limited to relatively easy things such as avoiding 90 degree angles and the like, in order to keep costs (developmental, purchase and maintenance) down. Aerodynamics would be aimed at efficient, subsonic long-range cruise. Supersonic capability would  not be sought owing the weight and complexity pepnalty. The bomber version I see as having a 2 man crew, but with cockpit space for 2 more as well as things to make very long missions easier on the crew. (Such as space to lie down and sleep). I would also seek an electronic systems architecture that made it easy to add new types of electronics or weapons as they become available.
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Gerry       11/14/2012 10:35:28 PM
How is a BUFF expected to use 110 SDBs in the future? While I understand they can be programed and sent in different directions, I can't imagine 3 or 4 BUFFS loaded with SDBs dropping their load most anywhere unless it were China, North Korea, or Iran. OK maybe I can imagine it.
 
Quote    Reply

trenchsol       11/15/2012 7:07:27 AM
So, instead of hauling an artillery battery, you could send one B-52, which will keep circling over the area and drop bombs smart when needed.
 
DG
 
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       11/15/2012 6:12:18 PM
"The basic airframe should be large and flexible enough to be used for functions such as AWACs, ELINT, EW, ground surveillance radar, maritime patrol, tanker, etc. as well as being a bomber. And by this I mean that the basic design could be adapted to these functions, not that each could do everything." 
 
Or simply invest in a blended-wing-body design (more efficient; greater range/payload) for both manned and unmanned operation, fully-computerised control surfaces, moderately improved RCS characteristics etc.... Don't go overboard with initial requirements, keep the design purposefully simple and robust with emphasis on reliable proven tech, allow for potential adaptation without trying to build those capabilities in from day-one. 
 
I would imagine the days of any airframe being able to do all of the above missions (in quoted text) are long-gone - the logistical footprint of a B-52-sized airframe is overkill for most of those roles. 
 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

WarNerd       11/16/2012 3:31:13 AM
"The basic airframe should be large and flexible enough to be used for functions such as AWACs, ELINT, EW, ground surveillance radar, maritime patrol, tanker, etc. as well as being a bomber. And by this I mean that the basic design could be adapted to these functions, not that each could do everything." 
Thanks to miniaturization and offloading most of the crew to ground bases with satellite communications they can now fulfill many ELINT, communications node, and ground surveillance radar with roll-on packages in tanker aircraft. There is plenty of space (fuel is dense, they are weight limited) and they are going to be orbiting the area anyway.
Or simply invest in a blended-wing-body design (more efficient; greater range/payload) for both manned and unmanned operation, fully-computerised control surfaces, moderately improved RCS characteristics etc.... Don't go overboard with initial requirements, keep the design purposefully simple and robust with emphasis on reliable proven tech, allow for potential adaptation without trying to build those capabilities in from day-one. 
Like to see it. A military cargo transport, bomb truck, missile launch platform, electronics platform,and tanker based on a common design. Just change the center section during construction. Go with stealth shaping, which should give a 90%+ reduction, but skip the expensive coatings. Definitely designed for manned or unmanned operations, the flexibility will be critical for when the military communications network gets hacked, jammed, or shotdown. Design requirements should include certification at time of the construction contract award that all items called for are at a minimum of TRL 7.
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       11/16/2012 8:29:20 AM
Well, it's doubtful the DOD would ever specify something so readily achievable - based on recent trends they'd expect to build in all anticipated future requirements from day one. 
 
Quote    Reply

Sty0pa       11/17/2012 1:15:35 PM
Honestly, the simple 'bomb truck' role could probably go almost as simply to a 757 or 787, and enjoy mass production discounts, the widespread availability of common parts, and easy familiarity for commercial pilots (if it's ever required).
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics