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Murphy's Law in Action Discussion Board
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Subject: Ammo shortage, etc.
NVDoyle    3/26/2001 10:25:25 AM
One hundred rounds a -year-, to maintain 'proficiency'?
This is disturbing. One hundred rounds might be enough to familiarize yourself with the mechanical operation of the weapon, but not to shoot with any accuracy, or become comfortable with it. I hope that there is the possibility of troops doing more, of their own volition. 100 rounds is barely half an hour's shooting.
And the entire concept of the US military being short on small-arms ammo is frightening. I'm curious as to the causes of this lack of the most vital of supplies.
 
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Elbandeedo    RE:Ammo shortage, etc.   4/8/2002 1:54:08 PM
Lemme see. I retired last July; we were given (on those years we were ABLE to qualify) 3-9 rounds to zero the weapon. we then were allowed to fire 40 rounds to qualify. If we failed to qualify (!!!) or if we wanted to improve our 'score', and there were sufficient rounds, after everyone had been through the firing line, we could try one more time - so the math is pretty close. about 100 rounds per year, depending on whether you fired twice or not... IF you got to fire in any given year! (I personally had nearly 10 years out of 20 where I was unable to fire for various reasons) 1 year in Turkey where the Turkish government wouldn't allow us to have ammunition. Then 4 years in the U.K. where we didn't even HAVE weapons!. mix in years in schools, or tied up in travel where it was difficult if not impossible to get to the range ('cause the 'unit' only goes once per year, and if you are gone during that time, too bad, so sad.) We were allowed to fire of our own volition - as long as we knew someone who owned a 'sporting rifle' similar to what we qualled on. (Colt makes a spiffy AR-15 that is very close to the mil spec version) but personally I never knew anyone who owned one - they used to run about $1500.00. Now, that is all from a 'support weenie', a Non-combat soldier in a Non-line unit. We were indoctrinated with the belief that 'there is no front line, everyone is a soldier' yet the training was pretty obviously NOT aimed at maintaining that fiction. E.
 
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mustavaris    RE:Ammo shortage, etc.   4/22/2002 1:07:37 PM
I served in artillery brigades HQ unit. We went to shooting range once or twice a month and each time we shot at least 30 rounds. Mostly about 50-80 each time. + some live fire "combat shootings" on larger excercises. And we arent supposed to engage fighting... How much US army uses heavier weapons in training? I havent thrown any hand-grenades though some of our unit did so. Some also got their hands on live M72 LAWs but thats all. One of my friends who served as sergeant and were in AT unit shot four times with AT-4 Spigot and several times with M72 and B-10 during one year- but I have no idea how much other armies do live firing- Russians do it a lot as far as I know.
 
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Ben    RE:Ammo shortage, etc.   4/22/2002 2:03:27 PM
My experience was with combat and intel units and a little bit different. Following a training experience not unlike Elbandeedo's, ammo usage on live fire range in my active units was quite liberal. There were too many M-16 rounds to count, and I was also assigned big crew served weapons like the M-2 50 cal and the Mk 19 grenade launcher-, both of which I put many rounds downrange with. (I am a big guy, so it seemed natural to get a big weapon) Being in an intel career also meant "fam fire" (familiarization) with foreign weapons. Not a lot of regular use, but I was able to fire several soviet and european weapons (including the infamous AK, naturally)- and one, just one, round from an RPG. Intel units don't get anything bigger, sadly.
 
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Elbandeedo to Ben    RE:Ammo shortage, etc.   5/8/2002 1:12:56 PM
Musta been a 'tactical intel' unit. Us 'strat-weenies' never got ANYTHING cool to 'play with'. M-16, if we were lucky (but then you read my post!) :-) E.
 
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Ben    RE:Ammo shortage, etc. to El bandeedo   5/8/2002 2:43:33 PM
yes Indeed, way too tactical. Lord, how I wanted a "strategic weenie" post. In fact, 109th MI was the first to incorporate an organic LRRP company. 109th MI deployed far from the front lines- unfortunately, "far" in both directions! But, firing the Mk 19 was a blast. A whole series of small blasts, actually. Sadly, I was forced to leave when the Army in its infinite whizbang thought that now that I had the middle east down pat, it was time to ship to Korea. Oh well. When I left Korea, my replacement spoke fluent Serbo-Croatian. When it comes to the Army's rotation and deployment policy for MI pers., Murphy's law is SOP.
 
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Elbandeedo    Was -RE:Ammo shortage, etc. - MI Branch SNAFUs to Ben   5/10/2002 5:09:39 AM
On 5/8/2002 2:43:34 PM Ben said, "When I left Korea, my replacement spoke fluent Serbo-Croatian. When it comes to the Army's rotation and deployment policy for MI pers., Murphy's law is SOP." Amen. I once had a very 'amusing' conversation with my 'detailer' (MI Branch personnel rep.) She said, "You're going to Turkey. Get packed." I said, "I've just spent 6 months in schools away from home, could I possibley get a stay of execution, maybe another month or so at the least - or send me to Bragg - I am jump qual'd." She says, "No. Tough poop on the 'away from home' thing, off you go, now. And forget Ft. Bragg - you're a signals analyst. No use for your skills in a tactical slot." So I say, "Ok, roger, got it. So I get Homebase, or assignment of choice or something when I get back, right?" "Yep, I picked it for you, Ft. Bragg - you're jump quallified!" :::shrug::: what can you do? E.
 
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