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Subject: The Nerd Gap Is Real
SYSOP    7/22/2008 5:31:33 AM
 
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arodrig6    Foolish Policy   7/22/2008 5:20:15 PM
This is a major problem, made worse by bad immigration policy. Not only are we not producing enough native engineers and scientists, but we make it difficult for foreign-born technical workers to stay here after they get a degree. 
 
These workers often can't work in defense directly (due to citizenship requirements) but if they were allowed to stay, they could satisfy some of the non-defense demand for technical talent, this would free up more US-born techies to work in defense, and would be a HUGE boost to many US companies.  I work with several computing companies, and many are forced to move research, design, and development overseas because the visa requirements in the US are so high.
 
Our universities are by far the best in the world (8 of the top 10 and 57 of the top 100 according to www.arwu.org).  They produce yearly crops of the most talented scientists and engineers in the world - they exact people we need to maintain a technical economy. A crop which is the envy of every nation. Yet, instead of trying our hardest to hold on to these people, we but barriers up to prevent them joining our economy.
 
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greyghost       7/22/2008 5:41:12 PM
 Science and engineering tend to be male oriented  fields. All education  these days cater to women. I think female to male ratio is 60% female for college enrollment. Women tend to take liberal arts courses. So the pool of American students will always be limited. We also have an advanced technical society and there are many scientific and engineering opportunities in the private sector which will compete for the few graduates we produce.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       7/23/2008 11:18:44 PM
While finishing my grad degree in science/engineering, there were NEVER any intel related agencies recruiting.  And the defense contractors don't want to spend the money or wait for clearance.  This is also a problem with the consulting companies, they want it all and they want it now despite the talk of being willing to "cultivate" talent.  Middle management just can't be bothered.
 
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Foobarista       7/24/2008 1:41:19 AM
The long wait for clearances has always been a problem.  When I was at a big defense company in the late 1980s, you had to wait in a "bullpen" doing nothing for up to five years waiting for your clearance.  After working on some B&P stuff, I ended up leaving and going into non-defense work.
 
Occasionally, I'd contemplate going back, but if they're still doing the silly "bullpen" thing, I'd rather not.  Also, my wife's from China, which may or may not be a problem.

 
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FJV    The way I see it   7/24/2008 12:28:11 PM
This phenomenon might not limited to the US. There might be a growing shortage of technical engineering skills worldwide (some areas of computers and software excepted). The US might even be lucky they can use these foreign students to fill up shortages of technical personel in US industries. The US would do well to retain that foreign rescource pool.
 
In the Netherlands I have seen companies that have no mechanical engineers younger than 30 years old employed, because these are nowhere to be found. I have seen companies that hire 63 year old engineers, when in sales no-one over the age of 55 will be hired (in the Netherlands). 
 
The alternative resources are seem to be getting scarce, the former East block, letting the aging population work longer, automation, etc. This means that eventually for a company only wage increases will remain as an option.
 
I do not see fast improvements in this situation. At the same time the number of airplanes flying, ships sailing, bridges built is not decreasing. Someone has to do all the engineering for that.
 
 
 
 

 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       7/27/2008 5:37:58 PM
I've known more than a few people at Ball and Lockheed in Denver whose raises and promotions are continually put off for years until they find a cushy civilian job with higher pay, virtual office, more responsibility, etc and then their defense company middle managers "suddenly" come up with the goods.  But it is too late and the soon to be ex-employees are just too angry.
 
It's almost like some 1960s mentality of "you should be happy to be working for us and us alone".
 
On the consulting side, most companies want to take career designers, put them in sales and give them a tight deadline to make rain or else.
 
And all this while all of these companies simply disqualify most applicants in a continued attempt to raise the H1B quota, including defense contractors.
 
Also, having a Chinese wife is a liability for defense contracting.

 
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Claymore       7/28/2008 3:33:04 AM
 I am a EE and got recruited. Defense Organizations are realizing their talent is aging and that younger people need to be moved in. For these younger people they are moving the clearance process right along. It helps because college kids are younger, thus have less history so they can be investigated easier.
 
Same is true in the State Department. A lot of people want to be Foreign Service Officers(FSO) but they end up giving up and moving on because the Department takes a year or so to process applicants.

 
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