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Subject: Competence Versus Political Loyalty In The Iraqi Army
SYSOP    9/23/2014 5:12:38 AM
 
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Gerry       9/26/2014 10:46:37 PM
Not sure I buy any of this crap. Leadership under "Malaki" was based on loyalty , not competence. So the military would not turn on him. What he got was not an undertrained military but an incompetent military leadership loyal to Malaki, corrupt as they could be, but incapable of leadership in battle. Sunni or Shia had little to do with it.
 
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trenchsol       9/29/2014 10:30:22 AM
I have found an information that Iraq had one million people in the army, or military, not sure. The article mentions 600000, and around 50% of it salvageable. That leaves around 300000 'salvaged' soldiers, which is 10:1 compared to 30000 IS fighters.
 
So, nothing to worry about, right ?.....
 
 
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keffler25       9/29/2014 8:10:36 PM
Plenty to worry about.
 
The French had an army trained the wrong way, led the wrong way, that was still fiercely patriotic, fought hard and yet suffered OODA loop failure on 1940 when they were out-shocked and out-generaled.'
 
You  could pick another example from the Punic wars when the Roman soldier was a much better trained more patriotic fighter than Hannibal's freebooter mercenaries. Cannae remember?
 
I have this sneaking suspicion that there is a 'general staff' behind ISIL that has been rather clever in directing their 'war-fighting'. Despite BHO's claim that these guys were the junior varsity, they seem to have read their real enemy very well and know exactly how to get inside his head and defeat him.
 
You don't have to defeat the American soldier (actually very hard to do), just the commander who leads him. 

I have found an information that Iraq had one million people in the army, or military, not sure. The article mentions 600000, and around 50% of it salvageable. That leaves around 300000 'salvaged' soldiers, which is 10:1 compared to 30000 IS fighters.

 

So, nothing to worry about, right ?.....

 

 
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WarNerd       9/30/2014 12:42:14 AM
I have found an information that Iraq had one million people in the army, or military, not sure. The article mentions 600000, and around 50% of it salvageable. That leaves around 300000 'salvaged' soldiers, which is 10:1 compared to 30000 IS fighters.
 
So, nothing to worry about, right ?.....
It was planned for 800,000 total, about 3/8 active and the rest reserves.  Had about 270,000 active before the fighting started
 
However, the Iraqi army has had the trained leaders have been replaced by political hacks and the best 1/3 of the troops have been frittered away on failed face saving attacks.  Most of the reserves have joined the religious Shia militias (the government disbanded the Sunni reserves, and tried to disband the Kurdish ones).  And the 270,000 includes the support troops, the IS number does not.
 
So you have something like 72,000 of the poorest trained and abysmally lead combat troops, less defensive detachments, plus the even less trained and more poorly lead, but better motivated, religious militias, most of which are local and not usable offensively.  Facing them are 30,000 better trained, lead, and motivated troops.  Odds are more like 2:1, not counting the difference in quality of the troops.  Count in the quality and the odds are more like 1:2.
 
Given a year to train the Iraqi army, which they may not have, and decent leadership, which is unlikely, these odds can be turned around.  But it all falls apart as soon as they invade Sunni territory unless the Sunni’s and Kurds can be brought to the government side.  It’s doable, but not if the government remains locked to the Shia religion.
 
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trenchsol       9/30/2014 8:16:20 AM
The last line of my post was meant to be ironic.
 
I have posted several links in last month or two about the state of Iraqi Army. It seems to me that best trained Iraqi soldiers are the most demoralized and disillusioned. Because of the discrepancy  between what they learned and what they faced in their units during the service.
 
 
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keffler25       9/30/2014 9:46:54 PM
So, nothing to worry about, right ?.....
 
 
I want to invest in those who put forth the effort. BHO is not getting this one right and that is because he is the one who is being defeated, not the disillusioned Iraqis or those Kurds.
 
That was my point in response to your ironic comments. 


The last line of my post was meant to be ironic.

 

I have posted several links in last month or two about the state of Iraqi Army. It seems to me that best trained Iraqi soldiers are the most demoralized and disillusioned. Because of the discrepancy  between what they learned and what they faced in their units during the service.

 
 
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