Could Germany and the Axis powers have Won the Second World War?

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 NEXT

stratego RE:Fragmented thoughts--shawn 9/23/2004 10:25:39 PM

One problem with attacking Russia first. Before the conquest of Poland, Germany had no border with Russia

Quote Reply

gf0012-aust Fragmented thoughts--stratego 9/23/2004 11:20:06 PM

But it wasn't ever going to be a surprise strike against the Russians. Remember the Russians had breached German Intelligence a few years after Rapollo. They had set up the facilities for the Germans to practice military tactics and training, as such they had bugged the area, so they knew exactly what long term planning was being theorised and discussed. Germany as such, never really was going to surprose the Russians as the Russians knew that eventually, the Germans had planned to turn on them. They played a far better game of tactical chess.

Quote Reply

fall out RE:Fragmented thoughts--stratego 9/24/2004 1:18:22 AM

cept their king refused most of the prior warning, even for a while when german forces had already penetrated russia.

Quote Reply

gf0012-aust RE:Fragmented thoughts--fallout 9/24/2004 1:43:31 AM

which king??? Rapollo was in 1922. The last russian king was a victim of regicide in 1917, and the last german emporer was in no position to do anything effective at the political level except to regularly bathe himself. ;) That was the absolute extent of his meaningful personal power.

Quote Reply

fall out RE:Fragmented thoughts--fallout 9/24/2004 4:25:13 AM

haha, no, you mentioned chess, hence i described stalin as their 'king', the most important piece yet stuffing up just as much as hitler. :)

Quote Reply

Ehran RE:Fragmented thoughts--fallout 9/24/2004 4:42:21 PM

it's interesting that in all the discussion of conquest the fact that every mile the front advances means that many more men tied up minding the logistics lines and manning the logistics lines. how far forward could the nazi's have advanced before they collapsed under the strain of occupying all that territory? even if they had knocked the russians out of the war how big a chunk of russia could they have occupied successfully?

Quote Reply

gf0012-aust Fragmented thoughts--Ehran 9/24/2004 6:59:53 PM

True, if you assume that they would try to secure completely all the logistical umbilicals. But, the Germans had considered island hopping, ie securing main pivot points and then flying in more bullets and beans and then centrifugally expanding out at each point. Still, it's all academic. But the notion of island hopping into centres of gravity had been thrown on the table by Goering (of all people!) Whether they could have achieved it considering the fact that they had a corporal for a general is another thing.

Quote Reply

timon_phocas RE:Russian Intelligence Victories 10/1/2004 9:44:01 PM

I've read the autobiographies of Russian intelligence operatives, and many say that the main Russian source for German plans was moles they had in the British "Ultra" code breaking operation. If they're correct it would seem that the Rote Kapella sanf mostly in jolly old England.

Quote Reply

worldbuilder equipment vs. operator 10/3/2004 4:25:31 AM

Discussion about WWII is all about probability. There are no certainties. You don't see how the Axis could have won? I guess then you don't see how I can take a better photo with a cheap $100 digicam than my older brother with his $800, 7.0 Megapixel camera can. Equipment CAN make a difference. Numbers CAN make a difference. But by far the greatest limiting factor of german success was Hitler himself. Hitler unarguably achieved many good things (and some bad)until 1938, but then his bad actions greatly overtook his good. He then proceeded to expand the holocaust and perform the worst human actions in history. I am so ashamed, as a German. If Rommel would have putsched in 1938, it would be a different world (subject worthy of a book or comp game??). The holocaust would probably have been aborted in an early stage, strategic blunders like the insufficient supply of the Afrika Korps, the halfhearted U-Boot war and various disasters in Russia (Stalingrad, etc) probably wouldn't have happened. If Rommel would have putsched in 1938, regardless of the outcome of the war, we probably would have a less negative memory of wartime Germany, less evil anyways. Its really too bad.

Quote Reply

puffngrunt RE:Could Germany and the Axis powers have Won the Second World War? 10/3/2004 3:13:52 PM

They never could. Even supposing a couple of very unlikely what-ifs: If Britain had fallen in 1940; quite possible given 10 days of calm weather in the channel--even a failed invasion would have wrecked the RAF and the navy's destroyers would have been lost in (very likely successful)suicide attacks and how would they fight the battle of the Atlantic without them? Remember the Brits had only one combat ready division in July-Canadians--and they had never fought a pitched battle. The second and third what-ifs are had Von Paulus been allowed to retreat the army forted up in Stalingrad and later, had Operation Citadel (Kursk) been cancelled. It wasn't and Germany lost a year's production of tanks in 10 days. The Societs were already producing in one month the number of tanks Germany manufactured in a whole year and they were better tanks. Avalon Hill's economic game on the war in Europe is not-all encompassing but does show the relative strengths of the powers and Germany's increasing might as it occupied allied countries. Against the Societs and the American war industries they had no hope of victory. If Hitler had suddenly got reasonable or if he had been replaced by anybody else after Moscow 41 and allowed von Manstein and his other commanders to fight defensively in the east it's possible some sort of stalemate could have been agreed to by the Soviets. But as long as Hitler was in charge, Germany's doom was certain. I do not count the Italians and Japan in this account of what might be's. Second line Russian troops whacked Japan with ease in a stand up fight in Nomonhan, Manchuria prior to the war. All the bravery in the world can't fight tanks with broom handles.

Quote Reply

PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 NEXT