Could Germany and the Axis powers have Won the Second World War?

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 NEXT

foxbat RE:Could Germany and the Axis powers have Won the Second World War? 6/4/2004 12:05:17 AM

I agree with frost. In fact, Rommel was supposedly interested in just such a stalemate or favorable ceasefire by mid-war. Clearly the German generals were more than capable; unfortunately for them and fortunately for us, they were under the insane leadership of Hitler (which is why we beat tyrants). The Generals were experienced veterans who knew they were being overstretched, but also knew the penalty for going against the Führer- a bio holiday. If the expansion had been pursued in a more long-term fashion, they could have arguably posed a much greater danger to the free world, than they in fact did with their minute-rice empire.

Quote Reply

ccooke If Germany had won 6/4/2004 6:10:56 AM

I don?t see what the US could have done in such a situation. If Germany had conquered Europe, Russia and the Middle East. They would have been in control of vast natural resources. Plus almost limitless slave labour. Arms production would have gone through the roof and would easily have outstripped America in production capacity?. As for America ?nuking? Germany. The Manhattan Project was a combined allied effort. It would be unfair to suggest that they could have completed a nuclear device before 1947 without assistance . Even if they were able to do this. How would such a device be delivered? If we are assuming that America?s Military capability and ingenuity remained constant after Germanys conquests. Then we have to assume the same for Germany, but with added resources and manpower. I just can?t see a flying fortress flying over to Berlin. What with all those Jet Fighters and V2 rockets going the other way?. As for the Reich not lasting due to it being absorbed by other cultures within Europe. What other Cultures? In the 3rd Reich there would have been only one culture. Auschwitz, Bezec, Treblinka, would have been a footnote in the overall list of camps that would have been running If he had won. Hitler?s Hatred did not just extend to the Jews. However repulsive the thought may be, they were just the first in line??

Quote Reply

The Grand Pubah RE:Could Germany and the Axis powers have Won the Second World War? 6/23/2004 1:49:02 PM

Indeed Germany would have been able to invade Russia and in fact occupy it while finishing off the allies in the west. Had germany not alienated the russian population as they entered Russia many people would have been happy to support the nazi occupation. These people could be used to bolster the German forces, and the added resources of a fallen russia would allow the german's to bring England to it's knees. Sure these people would expect to be fed which would have been a problem, but they were hungry before anyway. Not declaring war on the United States might have helped matters a bit, as well as crushing the british Expeditionary force at Dunkirk or bombing the airfields as opposed to london. As far as the war in the Pacific goes, even if the Japs finish the job at Pearl Harbour, even if they finish off the carriers at Midway, they'd still have to take on a pretty pissed off and armed american population if they landed. Not happening when the Japanese supply lines stretch across the Pacific.

Quote Reply

RockPicken RE:Could Germany and the Axis powers have Won the Second World War? 9/16/2004 1:26:53 PM

I suppose if Hitler ahs stopped with continental Europe and been satisfied wtih that, he would've been able to build defenses against Stalin (who might've attacked later anyway) and negotiated something with the Brits. This despite the declaration of war after Germany invaded Poland and France; the atmosphere around the phony war years might just have allowed that to happen.

Quote Reply

919 RE:If Germany had won 9/17/2004 9:23:22 PM

I was trying to stay out of this dog fight, but just couldn't. If Hitler had kept on pounding the RAF bases of Group 12, instead of switching the bomber to London, Germany would have knocked England out of the war by late spring of '41. Air superority comes from knocking out the enemies air bases. Fighter spend most of their time on the ground, so that is the best place to kill them. The Group 12 balboas could not have stopped the Germans from invading, and the German air force combined with the U-boats would have eventually worn down the Royal Navy. Then it's german soldiers with automatic weapons against english farmers with shotguns and pitchforks. I know who I bet on. And Cookie, ever hear of the B-29? And you are overestimating the non american contributions to the Manhatten project. Granted, most of the scientists were not BORN American, but then again it is not unusual for great Americans to be born elsewhere. It is kind of cheeky to run them off and then try to take credit for what they do as Americans.

Quote Reply

Smurf RE:If Germany had won 9/18/2004 9:26:50 AM

1. Manhattan Project. Non-American contributions were vital. This is not to be contested, America got most of its heavy water and Uranium from Canada. Would they have given it if the UK had been over run? Probably, but its possible that Hitler could have negotiated them out of it, the holocaust was unknown at this time and Canada has still had no fighting in Europe before D-Day. Although its possible that they would have gone to the aid of the English When the Germans landed there. The Pacific: I've heard people talking about different presidents, I'd like to point out that if Roosevelt hadn't been elected, he would not have pushed embargos and demands on Japan, and Japan would not have attacked the USA. Thus preventing them from joining the war all. UK: Churchill did say he was within days of surrendering at times. If Rommel had been allowed to go into Dunkirk, its very possible UK would have surrendered, thus the USSR would probably have been doomed. USSR: I'd like to point out that the lend-lease program was barely sending anything before 43, after stalingrad. If Italy had been able to take the Balkans, Germany would not have had to go in, and therefor Operation Barbarossa would have been launched on time, and the German Army would likely have not been caught in the winter and ultimatly taken Moscow. link Japan: If Japan had accually invaded Pearl Harbour they would have been much stronger, firstly because they could have raised the wrecks and built new ships out of them (The USA did this when the Japs left). Secondly they had a base with which to launch bombings and naval raids on the mainland from. If the japs had taken the Panama Canal ships would have taken more time to get around, not to mention that fewer would have been bothered to be sent. I doubt the Japanese would have invaded Russia, they didnt trust Germany, which is why Hitler declared war on the USA, he was hoping Japan would begin to trust him again and declare war on the USSR, forcing her into a 2 front war and hopefully Hitler could have salvaged another quick Victory. If this had happened the Axis could likely have won WW2.

Quote Reply

Smurf RE:If Germany had won 9/18/2004 9:29:04 AM

Hitler made many bad mistakes. If he had listened to his Generals I think his Victory would have been inevitable. But thankfully he didn't and he lost.

Quote Reply

timon_phocas RE:Could Germany had won 9/18/2004 11:53:50 PM

I think there are two kinds of answers to this question. The first is that Germany did have the resources, at certain points in the war, to win. It's armed forces were farther along the learning curve (in the early part of the war) and were more effective than the allies. The second answer depends on the the character of Adolf Hitler. The fuhrer principle was the center of the Nazi state. Everything depended upon the character of the fuhrer. Democracies are self correcting. Chamberlin lost his premiership because he made too many bad choices. Churchill almost lost his premiership after Tobruk. Lyndon Baines Johnson lost his presidency over Viet Nam. Who could have replaced Adolf Hitler, or even questioned his decisions? Germany was harnessed to a megalomaniac with no limits to his ambition. The OKW was making preliminary plans for invading India after the summer campaign of 1942. Across all of Russia and Central Asia to India? With 150 million viscerally angry Russians across your lines of communication?

Quote Reply

bsl RE:Could Germany had won- timon 9/19/2004 2:34:00 AM

I think you have it about right.

Quote Reply

bsl RE:If Germany had won ccooke 9/19/2004 3:02:20 AM

"I don?t see what the US could have done in such a situation." Actually, quite a lot. As usual, we do need to be rather more specific and detailed in the scenario proposed. Let's assume a German victory in the mid1940s. By, say, 1945, the Continent is conquered, the Soviets defeated, Britain reduced to an imposed settlement and not able to participate in American activities. German forces sit along Suez, and occupy the oilfields of the Persian Gulf. There are pipelines to carry oil to the eastern mediterranean, for transhipment to Germany. The treaties with Britain guarentee the right to buy resources from the Empire, and a similar arrangement exists with whatever conquered government is ruling the French Empire. And, the Dutch. What can America do, in 1945? We need to look, again, at the geography, demographics, and military capabilities. Germany is STILL dependent on overseas supplies to keep it's modern economy functioning and it's military working. That hasn't changed. Germany's manpower base is still limited. There may be 100 million Germans, but there are 150 million Americans. No other manpower possibly available to Germany is very good. Look back at WW2. Germany got a *few* good military units from allied governments. Not many. America, otoh, had a LOT of potential help, either on individual basis or in allied governments. Canada and Australia were NOT ruled by Britain in this era. They recognized the British Crown. They had their own, independent governments. Australia wasn't going to stick with a Britain which couldn't defend it from Japan. If any country in the world of the 1940s was a "natural" American ally, it was Australia. Canada? Look at how Canada acted in WW1 and WW2. They had no sympathy for the Nazis and if Britain was dominated by Hitler, they would have lined up with America, partly for convinction, and partly for fear that the Nazis might want to move in. (And, frankly, there is just no way Canada could have assumed a pro-German policy even if they wanted one. In context, in that era, America would have moved in and taken over, and with a LOT of local support.) It's also well to recall that while Germany needed resources which lay far from Germany, America cold get virtually everything needed to run the economy and the military from American territory. Rubber was an exception, but artificial rubber was invented by the mid40s. Balance of forces? Look at the American military buildup which actually occured between about 1939 and VE Day, in 1945. The American army was large enough to fight even the Wehrmacht at it's height. Navy? Germany could never challenge America at sea. They could never really challenge Britain at sea, either. It was only submarine warfare which they could do. Effective, until the Allies had a chance to build their escort forces and develop ASW. Basically, there was no way the Germans could have prevented the movement of American forces by sea. And, that's the key. Germany and Italy in WW2 were always BADLY limited by their lack of surface naval strength and, even more, lack of shipping to move forces and supplies. This is why the Afrika Corps was never large, even when it was clear that Rommel could beat the British and move clear to the oildfields of the Gulf with enough forces. The Germans just couldn't move and supply a large force even across the narrow Meditteranean. Basically, if Britain sat out a war between Germany and America, America would have established a beachhead in North Africa, as it actually did, in WW2, in 1942. It would have expanded that beachhead into the kind of base Great Britain actually became, for America, in WW2, and used it to stage forces anywhere along the Continental Coast it seemed useful to go. German control of Suez, indeed, German presence in Africa, would not have lasted long. The oil supplies from the Gulf would have been cut. Now, if the USSR had been conquered, presumably the fields of the Caucasus would be available to Germany. BUT, how to move the oil? I somehow doubt a pipeline would have been built across several thousand miles of Russian steppe, and the Ukraine. There would have been arrangements like those which exist, today; pipelines to convenient coastal facilities where oil would be pumped onto tankers. All ports, all tankers subject to American attack. I suspect the next stage would have been similar to what actually happened in WW2; chew at the fringe, a bit, while building for a direct attack on the main German forces. Knock Italy out, again. (Italy was especially vulnerable because of it's geography. In "modern" warfare, a la, 1940s, any country which controlled the Mediterrean could attack almost any part of Italy at will.) Ultimately, grand landings probably in France, although, conceivably, in the Low Countries, under the cover of huge, carrier based air support. If a southern French route was chosen, then with land-based

Quote Reply

PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 NEXT