Greatest Military Leader Of All Time

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Ad RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/13/2003 4:27:38 PM

To drift into the sub conversations. I'd much rather keep my soverign status, than be apart of any other nation or organization! I agree with your points however. Interesting to see if Blair gets these red-line vetoes. Why he isn't holding a referendum is an insult to our inteligence and democratic rights. The only way i'll accept Britain as being fully submereged into th EU and using a single currency; is if they use the Pound and call it the British Empire!.

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StudentofConflict RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/14/2003 2:27:55 PM

anyway, it looks like with the collapse of the recent EU summit, Britain's chances of being subsumed into an EU superstate have got smaller. Maybe its an irony of history that the Poles may be responsible for Britain keeping its sovereignty!.

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Elite_heroes RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/21/2003 5:34:37 PM

um well I would choose the greatest military leader of all time would be Alexander the Great he didnt lose 1 battle and he was a genus plus a king and conquared an empire only Ghenis khans but see ghenis lost 1 battle vs. the Romans and i think Alexander had greater tactics and trust in his men

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Heorot RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/26/2003 1:52:39 PM

What battle did Ghengis Khan lose against the Romans? Given that about 500 years elapsed between the fall of Rome and the rise of the Mongols.

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swhitebull RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/26/2003 2:00:11 PM

..What battle did Ghengis Khan lose against the Romans? Given that about 500 years elapsed between the fall of Rome and the rise of the Mongols ... I agree. I think he was probably referring to Attila the Hun at the Battle of the Catalaunian Fields near Chalons in 451. swhitebull

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Ad RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/28/2003 8:05:18 PM

Yes but the Romans won that battle.

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polyarmus RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/29/2003 1:16:23 PM

Problem with comparing military leaders from different periods is that the very substance of leadership changed. The "anciant" leaders were not only commanders in the field but also rulers or they greatly influenced development of the army (or in some cases they build the army) + we tend to neglect the influence of lower ranking "officers" - simply those people who were behind. This is becouse of lack of information about past + probably the influence of these men behind was smaller. Today? It is quite hard to be greatest military leader today, when the "levels of war" (strategy / operations / tacticks) are pretty much separated. Rommel for example was probably one of the best field commanders of all times, but to compare him with Subodai or Alexander Great is quite difficult - he fought where hi was said to fought with the forces he got from upper command with minimum chance to influence this. Or even in comparison with Wellington - Wellington was fighting the war, Rommerl only battles. I think that in the end you would pick someone from deep past - modern military commanders does not have a chance.

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Heorot RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 12/30/2003 4:45:17 AM

I agree, which is why I place Subotai so highly. He was a general, not a ruler. The Mongol army system was fully developed before he was in command. He just took the Mongols, split them into two armies and invaded Europe , co-ordinating 2 armies thousands of miles apart. The only reason that they didn't follow though and conquer the rest of Eurpoe was that the Ka Khan died and a successor was needed. All the main candidates were with Subotai but needed to get back to Karakorum for the vote. They went and took with them their private armies. This was a substantial proportion of the total army and there were no longer enough troops to continue the campaign, nor was there a Ka Khan to authorise the invasion. Christendom may owe its existence today to the death of Ogedai Khan.

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Ad RE:Greatest Military Leader Of All Time 1/2/2004 8:04:45 AM

That isn?t so as many Mongols, including Subotai (I?m not 100% sure) were Nestorian Christian?s. What was Subotai facing? A federal Russia, which was as rotten then as it was when Hitler invaded, and they only defeated Hungry because the Sarajevo bridge collapsed. Wellington however was facing the worlds ultimate power, commanding a small army, which was always able to out manoeuvre the greater French numbers. He was also able to win the peace, paying for everything and introducing the Provosts. Subotai lost battles, Wellington didn?t.

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gf0012-aus Subodai - Ad 1/2/2004 8:36:34 AM

Did Subodai lose any battles? The issue for Subodai is that he managed to armies totalling a quarter of a million men thousands of kilometres away from each other with a conjoining outcome. Ie he planned a thousand plus kilometre flanking manouvre. The fact that he was studied with positivity by luminaries such as Napoleon, Clausewitz, Hart, Patton and even Schwarkopf is no mean feat. I think it was Schwarzkopf who tagged him a 20th century general in 13th century clothes. The mongol invasions were the precursor of jointness. That is not to belittle wellington etc.. but where as the english were defining what infantry would do in the early 1800's, Subodai was implementing cohort manouvre, artillery, ballistics, etc... In a real sense his art of warfare was the grandfather of establishing war doctrine. I don't think you see a field army displaying such a multiude of disparate technologies integrated into manouvre warfare until the advent of the american civil war. In the context of him being in the 13th century, that is no mean feat.

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