American Caesar?

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phoage RE:American Caesar? 8/19/2003 3:57:42 AM

You are assuming of course that the Army would have followed them. Most of the Army was volunteers, citizen soldiers, officers and enlisted. I do not think they would have followed those orders even if the regulars had. Many of the officers had political ambitions for after the war that would have been for naught in a military dictatorship. Meade was still a General, and still Grant's nominal superior and had just run an unsuccessful campaign for the presidency. I do not think he would have held still fot it and he was still held in esteam by much of the Army. This was a real possability after the Revolution when the Continental Army offered the American Crown to Washington. He would have had the Army behind him and they were the only force of cersion on the continent worth mentioning. But I do not think the Army would have followed Grant that way.

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Idaho RE:American Caesar? 8/19/2003 9:10:20 PM

I don't think that there was much chance of either Sherman or Grant leading such a coup. Neither showed much interest in political power. They were soldiers first & last. I have not seen any evidence that either had any Napoleonic tendencies. Now McClellan of course & some of the political generals, Buell, etc, might of had some thoughts. At the end of the war, Grant was the only Lt. General in the nation & all the other senior generals were Major Generals, including Meade, Halleck, Sherman, etc. All were brevitted ranks if I remember correctly. Congress was quite stingy with rank during that war.

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AlbanyRifles Never Wold Have Happenned 8/21/2003 7:12:36 AM

Grant and Sherman both had a deep and abiding respect for the Constitution and never would have countenanced anyone talking about this let alone doing it. Don't forget, neither man was in uniform at the start of the war and like the 300,000 men who put on uniforms in late 1861-early 1862, the joined to restore the Union...which talked of the primacy of the civilian government over the military. As has already been said, the soldiers of the Union Army would have stacked arms and refused to follow. Grant was Meade's superior and had been since March 1864. Grant was made General in Chief and given the rank of LTG. And while there were many brevet promotions, Grant's rank was full regular Army not brevet. AT the end of the war, Meade, Sherman, Sheridan, Halleck and Thomas were all full Major Generals in the Regular Army. That emant they kept their ranks. A lot of BGs and MGs were full rank but not brevet (meant they got paid for it) in the Union Army. But they were BG or MG of Volunteersand reverted to their regular rank after the war. Similiar occurred during WW II. When Ike had 4 stars right before North African invasion, he was a full general in the Army of the United States but was only a colonel in the US Army (i.e, his Regular rank). He didn't become a Regular Major General until AUG 1943.

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t Ike's brevets 9/25/2003 4:07:40 PM

>>When Ike had 4 stars right before North African invasion, he was a full general in the Army of the United States but was only a colonel in the US Army (i.e, his Regular rank). He didn't become a Regular Major General until AUG 1943.<< Ike was breveted to Major and then LTC during WW1. He reverted to Captain after the war. Ike's promotions from 1919 onward were all permanent according to the official records. I believe the brevet system died before WWII. For the record: June 12, 1915-Second Lieutenant July 1, 1916-First Lieutenant May 15, 1917-Captain July 18, 1918-Major (temporary-World War I) October 14, 1918-Lieutenant Colonel (temporary-World War I) August 26, 1924-Major July 1, 1936-Lieutenant Colonel March 11, 1941-Colonel October 3, 1941-Brigadier General (1 Star) March 28, 1942-Major General (2 Stars) July 9, 1942-Lieutenant General (3 Stars) February 11, 1943-General (4 Stars) December 20, 1944-General of the Army (5 Stars)

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macawman An American Caesar, Douglas MacAuthur 11/1/2003 7:37:37 PM

I think the closest we came to an American Caesar was Douglas MacArthur. He tested our Constitution and Truman over civilian control of the military more than any General in US history.

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celebrim RE:An American Caesar, Douglas MacAuthur 11/13/2003 5:04:20 PM

"He tested our Constitution and Truman over civilian control of the military more than any General in US history." That and he acted like a monarch when outside of the US - say when in the Phillipines or Japan. But MacArthur had aspirations to the White House, not to being an American tyrant, and ultimately when called out, MacArthur went quitely. No, there was no chance whatsoever of an American monarch after then end of the Civil War, and has not been since The First President Named George (George the First?) declined the crown. The most powerful President since then is without a doubt FDR. No one else comes even close, and while I occassionally joke about George the Second and George the Third, neither of them have ever had close to tyranical power nor would they be allowed to take it despite what the nitwits say. The loyalty of our troops is not vested in a person, but in an idea and in a flag. That is why we say, "I pledge allegiance to the flag, and to the Republic for which it stands...", and also, "I swear to uphold the Constitution and defend it from all enemies - foriegn or domestic..." The nitwits that talk about government conspiracies don't understand how seriously the people who defend this country take those words, nor do they understand how seriously some of us civies take our duty either.

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