Non-Traditional Recruiting

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frankf@monmouth.com RE:Non-Traditional Recruiting 2/27/2001 10:38:41 AM

Only a deeply romantic patriot would choose to join an emasculated military that shuns the warrior mentality. The vast majority of recruits are joining for the benefits only - these are not the best and brightest. Short of conscription, the best way to get more good folks in is to raise the cap from age 35 to age 40. This would do some help in repairing the leadership damage brought on by the mass exodus of O-3's after their initial obligation and senior enlisted at 20 years. A physically fit 38 year old who is looking for a career change is more valuable to the armed services than a 31 year old non-achiever that has nowhere else to go. The laws as they stand do not allow the obvious to occur.

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Palotr@aol.com RE:Non-Traditional Recruiting 3/3/2001 4:57:48 PM

Anybody that has read "Starship Trooper" knows that we have to start by eliminating non combat jobs from military service. These are basicly empty shirts that are better performed by civilians anyhow. Secondly, the chaotic pay system of the military has got to go. While all jobs are important, there is no justification for paying a cook more than say a nuclear technician solely because of rank or time in service. Just like the civilian world supply and demand should determine pay. Otherwise the services will continue to lose their best educated and trained people to civilian jobs.

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wmayhue7@yahoo.com RE:Non-Traditional Recruiting 12/20/2001 6:49:52 AM

It might be a good idea to provided a special pay category for troops in a technical or hazardous military speciality. That way a person who gets into such a speciality would be compenstated for the degree of difficulty or hazard involved. To use an example: Person enlists in service to become a nuclear weapons technician. He qualifies, attends, and graduates from his/her basic school. S/he is awarded an a basic level job qualifier on his/her military specility code and receives a monthly "technical skill" pay additions of 15-20% of his/her base pay. Upon training up to an intermidiate skill level, increase the monthly technical pay addition to 20-35% of his/her base pay. Upon this individual achieving the highest skill level for his/her technical military speciality, increase the monthly technical skill pay to 35-50% of base pay. Use reenlistment bonusus of between 25-50% of one years base pay as needed for critically manned military specialities. Do the same for individuals in the combat arms who have a frontline or combat MOS/AFSC/etc. In my opinion it would be better to spend more US defense dollars on a smaller number of higher quality troops who have bigger reason to stay in sevice than to continue to do what the military is currently doing now.

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Ike RE:Non-Traditional Recruiting 12/20/2001 10:19:25 AM

This is the best idea I've seen yet, I hope someone takes notice and tries this.

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Jay RE:Non-Traditional Recruiting 12/21/2001 2:30:04 PM

I agree. They already have this for certain specialties, doctors are good example though not the only one, where pay is based not only on the M.D. qualification alone but even on the doctor's area of specialization. Great idea, I think it should be expanded.

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NAVYDAD2@CS.COM Retention of skilled personel 12/29/2001 12:07:59 AM

The destruction of a well trained military continues even in the face of a war on terrorism. Re-enlistment bonus' in key rates are reduced or subtracted from retirement. Most can quit the military and more than double their pay. How much longer will we force patriotic family men to choose between providing for their families or defending their country.

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andyalric@aol.com RE:Retention of skilled personel 1/21/2002 6:45:51 PM

I totally agree; the American Establishment thinks it can win wars on the cheap. Just ask the British and the Russians; it's a lot easier geting into Afghanistan than getting out. I thank God we have Powell and Rumsfeld running things; if the neocon chickenhawks get control and start invading Iraq and Somalia, it's going to be Vietman redux withone big exception we don't any sort of military that can fight a prolonged war. We are like the German army of 1940; the best short war army in the world.

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wmayhue7@yahoo.com RE:Non-Traditional Recruiting 3/18/2002 7:02:30 PM

I have given the following criteria for how pay can be better aligned to training. See if this makes sense. Basic pay increases as follows for successfully completing member?s initial military specialty school: For a two week long military specialty school --- -------------------base pay x 1.05 For a two to four week long military specialty school-------------- base pay x 1.1 For a four to eight week long military specialty school-------- ---- base pay x 1.2 (Note: Max training pay differential for a two year initial active enlistment) For an eight to 12 week long military specialty school--------------base pay x 1.4 For a 12 to 16 week long military specialty school-------------- ----base pay x 1.6 (Note: Max training pay differential for a four year initial active enlistment) For a 16 to 24 week long military specialty school-------------- ----base pay x 1.8 For a 24 to 36 week long military specialty school ------------ - ---base pay x 2 (Note: Max training pay differential for a six year initial active enlistment) If the military has sent a service member to school for such a period, then to pay a training differential for retention seems a relatively cheap way of keeping them on-board. For every advancement a person attains in skill level, increase their base pay by a prorated amount depending on the level difficulty of the advanced military specialty training. For instance, a food service specialist (cook) would not receive as much of an increase say as a individual in a more critical technical military specialty, such as an electronics technician or jet engine mechanic. As I envision it, the cook, when advanced from apprentice level to journeyman level would receive, for example, an additional 10% added to his/her base pay. A person in a critical military specialty would receive, for example, an additional 20% added to his/her base pay when advanced from apprentice level to journeyman level. Maintain this idea through the craftsman and masters level of skill, with appropriate levels of differential pay increases, perhaps another 20% per level. I think this would be a far better system then what is onboard now. It gives the members an incentive to sign up for more years of initial service, and encourages them to achieve advancement in skill levels (the question, ?What?s in it for me?? is answered once and for all! A little self interest is not a bad thing!) Comments, anyone?

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Sam RE:Retention of skilled personel 2/11/2003 8:27:02 PM

"Re-enlistment bonus' in key rates are reduced or subtracted from retirement. Most can quit the military and more than double their pay. How much longer will we force patriotic family men to choose between providing for their families or defending their country." Having worked as a Marine Corps Career Planner mayby I can shead some light on the whys for the above. Re-enlistment bonuses are given to individual Occupational specialitys that the service believes will be hard to fill the next year. Once the service has the required number of people that it needs they do away with the bonus. The key that everyone forgets is that we neither want or need everyone to stay in. The military is based on the pyramid. Need more one term people and less as they advance in rank. Over half of the USMC (approx 56% in 2000) are entry level marines. We only need about 10-15% of those to reenlist to adjust for career level attrition. The example that I will use is a rifle platoon. Each plt has 3 squads of 13 men, a guide and a platoon sergeant. The guide being a senior sergeant(E-5) and the platoon sergeant a staff sergeant(E-6) Those two are normally the only non entry level marines in the platoon. So 41 people of which 2 are career level.At any time 1/3 of them are eligable for reenlistment.We will have to keep a few more to fill outside billets (drill instructor,recruiter, security forces). This an example of a large MOS, it is even worse for a smaller one. We have to balance thenumber of personnel that we keep with promotion opportunities. There is nothing like sitting around as a E-5 for 6-8 years without promotion because your job is too full at the E-6 level. Can someone please explain how bonuses are subtracted from your retirement?

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Sam RE:Non-Traditional Recruiting 2/11/2003 8:51:15 PM

I posted this on another forum about a year ago. The compensation package needs to be explained. The military is a better deal than everyone thinks. Having just retired I can attest to the fact that I did't know how good I had it. Those of you that havn't been in the mil will be amased at what the military "really" gets paid. Here goes Think that you are not getting paid enough. Every study uses base pay, housing allowance (BAH) and food allowance (BAS) to show the pay gap. Factor the other bennies as well. 1. When you added BAH and BAS did you use the figures from your LES? Instead you should have factored in the tax advantage since these monies are non-taxable income. 2. How much did you pay for health and dental insurance for you an your family last month? Ask a civilian friend how much he paid. If you are on Tricare prime there is no cost share for use of a Mil treatment facility. How much for that perscription? Free on base, $3.00 or $9.00 for a 30 day supply if you have to get it through the mail order pharmacy. A few years ago my wife gave birth to our child. Cost $22.50 to include all prenatal care. Talk to a insurance agent about the cost of a policy that provides the same coverage that you get in service. ( Now that I'm retired, Tricare prime cost $440.00 per year same bennies, $20.00 co-pay for doctors visits) 3. How much were the schools that you attended for free worth. This applies especially for officers, What was your tuition cost at the Command and Staff or the War college? 4. Name a company that will pay 100% of your tuition for ANY college course. 5. The worth of your Death gratutity. $6,000. paid immediatly upon your death to help your family until the insurance money catches up. 6. For those enlisted living on base housing the EIC credit. (A E-6 with 16 yrs service and one child rates it if he lives on base housing, rent and utility free, because the federal gov does not factor compensation in but living off base he will not rate it because non - taxable income is factored in) 7. State withholding vs the state that you work in. (A military person stationed in california doesn't pay california state income tax but the tax of the state that he claimed for residence when he entered. 8. After 20 yrs a pension of 35% - 50% (depending on when you came in) starting not at age 65 or 70 but at the date of retirement. How much would you have had to save and invest on your own to get that type of return. Use a retirement age of 40 and life expectancy of 76. Now they can ALSO get the thrift savings plan (401K) in ADDITION to the retirement. Notice that I havn't brought up special duty, haz, jump, sea pay or combat exclusion. Other benifits at the state level such as if I had to pay for NC plates on my car it would cost over $100.00 My home state has a mil exemption and sends them to me for free. I also don't have to pay state tax or for hunting/fishing licenses while home. You have to factor those bennies in if they apply. Remember during the 2000 election the talk about Troops on welfare. What was found out is that yes married E-1/2 with children do qualify but would only be on the program for an avg of 8 months (promotion to E-3). Others that qual now all live on base housing and if we kicked them out in town and gave them BAH they would no longer qual. Yes I know that we now have the welfare offset pay but it fixes a non-problem. There are not many entry level jobs that a married 18 yr old with kids could get in the civilian sector that would keep him off welfare. I do not think that we pay service to our young servicemen when we perpetuatate the myth of low pay. I also do not believe that it is the taxpayers responsibility for our mistakes.( Children when we can't afford them, divorce, ect) Sorry for being so long Sam

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