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Subject: 6 marine snipers killed!
capt soap    8/6/2005 3:43:41 PM
Does anyone know how the 6 snipers where ambushed? How do you sneek
up on 6 snipers? where they in a vehical?
 
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Yimmy    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   8/6/2005 4:10:10 PM
How do you sneak up on 6 snipers? Easy.... you sit in a treeline and wait until some unfortunate sole walks by.
 
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Yimmy    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   8/6/2005 4:10:39 PM
Soul. :D
 
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scout    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   8/10/2005 1:41:44 PM
when almost all the people in town know where you are or that you are somewhere near they will let the insurgents know. it does not matter how stealthy you are sometimes. little kids can walk on you, tell their parents and then you have a problem..i know, it happened to my team more than once. it's just bad luck. but, the team might have been ambushed in the humvees..i don't know for sure...
 
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rtb0302    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   8/21/2005 11:27:10 AM
The Marines were a 6 man team from 3/25. They had used the same hide site for the last 3 days. Now this is where the stories I have heard differ. From the rumor mill: They were caught in a near ambush because their security plan was weak. A sheepherder moved to within 5 meters of them and then blasted them an AK, killing all 6. From Higher: They fell asleep and were killed by 3 insurgents. It was over in less than 5 seconds. This is more likely because a: Wounds were to the stomach, indicating that they did not have their gear on. b: not a shot was fired in return, including SAW. decide for yourself.
 
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GOP    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   8/25/2005 9:53:25 PM
>"They fell asleep"< There was 6 of them, and they all fell asleep? If only 1 of them had been awake, the insurgents wouldn't have even gotten in range. I understand that you get tired after 3 days, and you can 'combatsleep' (or whatever), but they should have had at least 1 awake, probably 3
 
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Lanton    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/12/2005 7:33:28 AM
A six-man team? One person with the long-gun, a spotter, someone doing security and someone on comms (four at the most)...what's with the other two? Also, shouldn't they have ditched the hide after the first day? If you're running hides in an urban environment, you've got to have back-up plans to deal with all kinds of compromises; whether it's children stumbling on your hide (chilren are naturally inquisitive), dogs giving away your position (dog could be taking a piss close to your hide then realise there's a number of strange-smelling things hiding inside, and then starts barking it's head off), or, as in this case, a sheepherder stumbling on the hide. One of the basic rules of infantry warfare; fire and move (or as the Americans like to say: shoot and scoot), fire and move. Don't give the bad guys a stationary target to concentrate their fire on.
 
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shek    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/12/2005 8:07:29 AM
Lanton, It would have been a sniper section, consisting of two 3 man sniper teams. Working in that size element allows you to better provide mutual support. Obviously, something went wrong here.
 
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Lanton    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/12/2005 8:14:54 AM
Oh, ok, i didn't know that. But the way i see it; the more personnel on one op, the greater likelyhood something's gonna screw up. One three-man team could've done one stint, for a day...pulled out and then another team could have come in and set up a different hide. You say that they had two sections on the same op, for security...but if things got sticky, they could've called in armoured support. The best-laid plans can always go awry, but if a three-man team had only spent a single day in that hide, the likelyhood of them being stumbled upon by a sheepherder, would've been dramatically reduced.
 
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eatmee    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/12/2005 9:56:38 PM
omg, looks like a right foul up if they had no-one on night watch duty. alot of these guys think they are god anyway, when in reality snipers are dead vunerable at close range.
 
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shek    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/12/2005 10:46:47 PM
Eatmee, I'd tell you that your assessment is totally wrong. They understand the risks and are highly trained to prepare them for that. They don't think that they are uber-human, except in Hollywood films. Lanton, I can't speak specifically on this case since I don't have the facts, and I won't speculate on the potential stories that have floated out there. However, operating in an urban environment is much different than stalking through the woods, and thus requires different techniques and tactics for infiltration, hides, and exfiltration. It isn't just as simple as calling 911 and having the cavalry show up to sweep you out of harm's way. I would tell you that operating in a larger element, while it poses infiltration and exfiltration issues, has many advantages, to include the ability to sustain a fight against a force for much longer and the ability to sustain some casualties and continue to fight.
 
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GOP    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/12/2005 11:16:31 PM
>"alot of these guys think they are god anyway, when in reality snipers are dead vunerable at close range. "< What gives you that idea? Have you ever worked with, been around, or met any USMC snipers before? These guys are highly trained warriors, and they are extremely brave, but they are not idiots. They were in a urban enviroment, so they could have been spotted by a lot of people, and alot of things could have gone wrong which were out of their control. As Shek said in a earlier post, they were in a urban enviroment, and it is alot easier to get spotted and alot harder to exfil. It would probably have been different if they were in a heavily wooded area, their is no good ghilly suit for FIBUA
 
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eatmee    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/13/2005 9:18:44 AM
OK ok , maybe i shouldnt have put it like that. i repect that they are warriors But its thier own risk if they not secure, afterall they are not invunerable.
 
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shek    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/13/2005 9:32:21 AM
No, it's the commander who is responsible for weighing the risks, determining whether the mission is worth it, and making sure that the plan is solid. If the local security plan wasn't followed, then that would be the fault of the snipers.
 
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GOP    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/16/2005 3:45:11 PM
Don't most Snipers carry their M-16's or M-4's on their missions?
 
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Yimmy    RE:6 marine snipers killed!   10/16/2005 5:59:36 PM
I don't think as standard a sniper would carry an assault rifle along with his sniper rifle. Perhaps he would carry a sidearm. Although I do know some nations, such as Sweden (at least I think its Sweden), issue MP5's in addition. I would think normally, it is just the spotter who has an assault rifle / M203 or M14 etc. I think it would largelly depend on the situation however. If say, an SAS team were designated with killing an enemy general, and they took a sniper rifle, it would be in addition to their standard arms, and would be left when they made their escape (minus the bolt).
 
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