A Question on Marine and Army Snipers

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benellim4 5/19/2009 4:48:35 PM

One reason Army snipers racked up more "kills" is how the two services went about crediting kills. The criteria for the Army was different. Some say easier, but I won't make value judgments like that.

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SCCOMarine 5/20/2009 9:51:13 AM

That may be true, but a lot of their numbers came fr/ the fact that, especially in vietnam, they were used covering close engagements w/their infantry units (where the #'s were to be had).

The Marines used/use their snipers differently. More free ranging & detached from the Line units. Working under the same guidance yes, but w/ more distance & autonomy in the same AO. Out there they can cause alot of disruption & containment but there aren't the #'s to be had slugging out toe to toe covering the Line units.

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timon_phocas 5/21/2009 6:07:30 PM

My son-in-law's experience in Iraq might be instructive. He was there with the Army's 3ID from late 2004 through 2005. He said they had two trained snipers in his battalion, but they were never used as snipers. Instead, they were used as typical infantry as the battalion CO combed through it to put maximum boots on patrol. My son-in-law (battalion armorer) was put in charge of a squad of various clerks, mechanics and technicians out on patrol.

He said that sniper school did not guarantee assignment as a sniper any more than jump school guaranteed your assignment to the 82'nd. It was solid training in marksmanship and stalking, and it was good for promotion points.

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iwas1ncthr From both sides 10/23/2010 2:55:43 AM

Well, I know this is an old post but i will try my best to answer the question. I served in the USMC with the B Billet of 8541/0317 and I also served in the US Army Reserve with the 351st MPs as a DM. The Marine Sniper has a multi task of situation,not just shooting a person and calling it a day, observation, calling in air strikes, arty, etc. Doing recon and bringing Intel to the CO to inform him on what the battlefield is up to. Marines work most times in 2 man units aka Scout Sniper you have a spotter and a shooter or you just switch off during long times in the bush. It is true the US Marines have the hardest Sniper School in the US Armed Forces and anyone who says different is nothing more than a idiot. Don't get me wrong, Army snipers are very good and they do an awesome job in their craft. Each branch has a mission and we can spend all day arguing who's mission is more this or that but at the end of the day the US Marines answer only to the US President, not congress like the other 3 branches, no pun intended. Weapon systems are about the same but teaching IMO is way off. I can use an M24 Sniper system and nail 1000yard targets all day with the .300WMG, move on to the M40A3 .308 BTHP I can do the same. Army says 800 meters, I say 1000 yards. Any Army sharpshooter/sniper knows this as fact. Marines are so drilled in marksmanship so naturally we are looked upon as a better all around shooter. Each Marine has to be able to hit 500yard targets open sights which in todays society qualifies him or her as a sharpshooter period, end of subject. This is also not a 1 time deal, you qualify sometimes 2/3 times a year and if you fail? by by. Each branch knows how to build and destroy a hid, knows how to shoot in position that will not give away or compromise your position but then comes stats. Historically the Marine Sniper has more kills than any Sniper in the US military to include Navy SEALS and that is also fact. Is it to say the Army isn't worth a damn? HELL no, I wouldn't want to be in the cross hairs of either of them. US Army has the larger budget and gets the better toys while the Marines get the Navy left overs and alls we do is perfect what we have to use. This is why a couple years ago the USMC finally agreed to join SOCOM but only if they were under orders from a Marine Officer. Guess it's just a branch thing and then again things have changed so much since I have been out. I got out of the USMC back in 97 and in 07 they changed the MOS to 0317. I thought it was BS till I read the official order thanks to some personal connection still serving in the Corps. In short, Don't go after being a sniper because you think your going to be cool. ITS NOT. The hell you live through everyday after never goes away and there is nothing glorious about taking a life even when saving the lives of your brothers in arms. Hollywood boosted Snipers up to this glorified MOS and it just isn't so. 99% of applicants are rejected and not cut out for it. You also have to have high scores on your ASVAB test and your GT I believe has to be at least 118 and higher. Can you look at a map for 1 minute, burn it in the trash and draw out everything you just seen? Can you detect a branch in a large field or brush cover that is out of place when you look at it for the 10th time? Just think about your question and look at it through the eyes of those who have been there, something better like EOD, get out, join a Bomb squad and get paid 6 figures for sitting on your rump or try Intel, MP's Aircraft machanics, jobs where you can make a good living after your time in the military. Not many jobs for Sniper/Sharpshooters in real life unless you think your going to be some pompous azz on that "cops" show who doesn't know his azz from his elbow about ballistic interference with a bullet and glass with a target behind it, trust me, it's nothing glorious. I hope this answers all your questions and gives you a respect for the men who do this job. We will watch for hours, protect our brothers in arms and take out the enemy but at the end of the day that enemy has a way of looking you in the eyes after he has left this earth.

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WarNerd 10/23/2010 7:08:38 AM

A Question on Marine and Army Snipers... by a half-informed, almost-foreign civvie. So I ask some tolerance already.

Why is it that the Marine snipers are portrayed as THE SNIPERS?
-- and by implication better than anyone else in the US military?

Are they truly better than Army snipers in...
... history of performance?
... training of their snipers?
... talent pool from which they get their snipers?
... equipment selection being a smaller and flexible force?
or just
... PR?

Or is the whole thing a capricious portrayal when all things are really equal? Something that caught one man's fancy and just grew out of hand into popular belief. I know some instances of such in US military itself... but dunno about this issue.

The principle difference is that histroically the other services somehow seem to believe that hunting other men is unclean, and shut down their sniper schools as soon as the current conflict ends. The Marines are strong believers in keeping anything that works well, and maintain their sniper schools and integrate the capability into their dcotrine.

As a result, the other services end up coming to the Marines when the next war starts and they want to rebuild the capability. However they seldom develop a formal doctrine for their deployment, greatly limiting their success deployment.

Let us hope that this is finally changing.

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