The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - November 23, 2009




New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 
Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Marines Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Marine Special Ops
ZachM    11/30/2004 5:09:22 PM
I often hear a lot about the Navy SEALs and how elite they are as a Special Force. Aren't the Marines a Special Force as well? Don't they operate with Special Force units? Because, the Marines and the SEAls have a lot in common. They both operate land, air and sea, they both work directly for the President of the United States, the Marines, however, are always the first ones called in when our country is under attack. The Marines are nick-named both the nation's 9-1-1 force and the tip of the spear of America. I never hear anyone ever refer to the Navy SEALs with those kind of terms or names. The best name I'ver hear the Navy SEALs with is "The Elite." Certain things make me think that in a lot of cases, the Marines are just as elite of a force as the Navy SEALs. The SEALs also downgrade the Marines by claiming they're the ones who operate all three land, air and sea, and supposedly have "The most intensive military training known to man." The Marines might not be a real Special Force (except for the Recons), but they're certainly the most elite among the Air Force, Army, and Navy.
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted
Pages: 1 2
neo_phuture    RE:Marine Special Ops   11/30/2004 5:48:26 PM
"I often hear a lot about the Navy SEALs and how elite they are as a Special Force. Aren't the Marines a Special Force as well? Don't they operate with Special Force units? Because, the Marines and the SEAls have a lot in common." Marines are not considered special forces, they are another branch of the military, however, i believe Force Recon is part of Special Operations Command. "They both operate land, air and sea, they both work directly for the President of the United States, the Marines, however, are always the first ones called in when our country is under attack." The marines have fixed and rotery wing assets, as well as ships operated by sailors, so in a sence, they do operate in land, air and sea. I'm also not sure what you mean by how the the Marine Corps works directly for the president, as they fit right under the department of the navy under the department of defence. And contrary to popular beliefs, the marines are not always the first ones sent in. For example, some crisis arose in the Ivory Coast I believe, (or maybe it was Cote d'Ivoire), but in this case, a regiment from the 82nd ABN was sent first. Also, the Navy SEALs are used differently than the USMC. Even between Force Recon units and SEALs, there's still a difference in operation. SEALs are typically used for short strike missions and sent on raids to collect information and such, while Force Recon units may be left in the field for weeks to gather intelligence (they were sent in a few weeks before the war in iraq officially began).
 
Quote    Reply

ZachM    RE:Marine Special Ops   11/30/2004 6:12:03 PM
When I say the Marines work directly for the President, I mean they are the ones called in to go rescue him if he's ever attacked or taken by enemy forces (just like the SEALs are called upon to do). Working directly for the President is also why the Marines can be deployed anywhere in the world within a 24 hour notice (Again, just like the SEALs). link has some good information about the Marines.
 
Quote    Reply

neo_phuture    RE:Marine Special Ops   11/30/2004 7:26:57 PM
If the president was ever in danger, and he needed to be rescued by the military, It would most likely be the Delta force as they specialize in hostage rescue. Delta Force is part of the army, not marine corps
 
Quote    Reply

USN-MID    RE:Marine Special Ops   11/30/2004 8:12:48 PM
Where do SEALs put down Marines in any seriousness? Intraservice rivalry and ribbing doesn't count. Intraservice banter is meant for those in the service...if you're not in it, you're going to misunderstand. When I call my Marine buddies jarheads, I don't in any seriousness think they're actually stupid. In the same way, when they call me a Navy slob, they don't actually consider me jacked up. And I doubt the President would be rescued by the Marines...they're not really trained in hostage rescue/CQB to the extent Delta or SEALs are.
 
Quote    Reply

rikopotomous    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/1/2004 1:28:49 AM
rofl, my father was in the 101st 1956-7 and they had a battle group rdy to be anywhere in the world in 36 hours. They had all their gear packed and rdy to go if they got called on so they just had to put it on and theyd be rdy to go in a few and could get anywhere on earth max 36 hours make a full combat jump and fight. now it wouldnt be like that for a full scale war but you'll get the sense from this story. One time my fathers battle group (they called them battle groups when he was in and they were called PIR parachute infantry regiment in WWII) was on alert when Nixon (VP at the time) was down in Panama or some country down there visiting and there was a riot outside the building he was in and ppl were almost over the walls so they put them on alert and they were on the tarmac waiting for planes to come get them to fly em down to Panama and he was wondering if he was gonna get shot by some sp*^ up in a palm tree but it all blew over and they called it off. point of all this is the entire U.S. military is commanded by the president and different branches have different strengths. If you wanna capture and hold an island and ocean then you go with the marines and navy. If youre going into a 2 month slug fest with a Heavy Corps on the plains of Europe I wanna be rolling in an Abrams with V corps and endless air support from the AIR FOREST i mean FORCE.
 
Quote    Reply

ZachM    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/1/2004 1:36:02 PM
Okay, look, I'm sorry for the misconception I caused here. I think it's just a mentality I have about the Marines. Both my parents were Marines. Father was a Marine for 15 years, Mother was a Marine for 8 years. I think it's just a mentality they installed in my head to get like this. It's something I need to control. However, Marines are actually somewhat trained in the area of hostage rescue. Many Marines have rescued several POWs and even taken suspected terrorists into custody. Maybe not the Marines alone, but I'm sure if called upon the Recon Marines could rescue the President if he ever needed it. I am 15 right now, when I turn 17, I plan on enlisting in the Marines. I need a bit of action in my life. Even if that action means getting my head blown up while over seas due to an M16 Rifle or bazooka. LOL, that was a joke, but it's not like being in the military can promise it won't happen. Being in the military can almost ensure it can happen anywhere any time.
 
Quote    Reply

ZachM    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/1/2004 1:43:11 PM
I never even metioned the Delta Force. But, now that you bring it up, to be honest, I never knew the Delta Force was owned by any Armed Force (as the SEALs are Navy, the Recons are Marines, the Airbourne and Snipers are Army). I always thought the Delta Force was it's own military. Thank you for that piece of information. I'll remember it.
 
Quote    Reply

devildog683    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/1/2004 5:34:24 PM
"I'm also not sure what you mean by how the the Marine Corps works directly for the president, as they fit right under the department of the navy under the department of defence." The Marine Corps is the only force the President can send into a conflict without going through congress. Ever heard the phrase "the Presidents own"?
 
Quote    Reply

neo_phuture    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/1/2004 8:54:25 PM
Yes, I am familiar with that phrase. The presidnet can send any branch to an over-sea conflict without the approval of congress up to 90 days.
 
Quote    Reply

USN-MID    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/2/2004 2:52:26 AM
Aviation assets can, and routinely HAVE been used without Congressional approval. Remember all those airstrikes on Iraq during the Lewinsky scandal? Subs are essentially ALWAYS out doing things they're not supposed to be doing on the NCA's order.
 
Quote    Reply

ambush    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/6/2004 7:23:47 PM
>>"Ever heard the phrase "the Presidents own"<< Actually that phrase refers to the Marine Corps band. Supposedly cannot leave Washington D.C. without Presidential approval. THe USMC has not had a very good relationsship with Special ops type units. There was and institutional hostility to what the Marine Corps sees as forming an elite within an elite. FDR had to just about force them to form Raider units in World War II. These units did not finish the war and were absorbed into the "regular" Marine Corps. Even Force Recon at times was treated as an unwanted stepchild. From my own experience in the early 80s 2nd Force Recon was administratively under the 2nd FSSG and Operationally under FMFLANT. Commns Sense would have suggested they should have been at least administratively under 2nd MARDIV. The Marine Corps has its own "SPecial Ops" units has Defined by the Corps not SOCOM. FAST teams, Force Recon, Snipers ets. All MEUs go through a certification process that designates them (SOC) Special Operations Capability. In my opinion, while every Marine Infantry Battalion is not equal to a Ranger Battalion every one that completes its MEU (SOC) trainup prior to deployment is. After Deployment unit attrition, admin and maintenance demands lessen its capability till the next train up. It is a poor staement on the Mairne Corps the their SOCOM members have to go through SEAL school to be certified for SOCOM. In a just and proper world SEALS should be at least getting their basic Infantry training from the Corps and advanced training at Amphib Recon School and the SF Water Infiltration Course (Which the Corps ran with the Army). Rangers are not required to go through SEAL schoool to be part of SOCOM. For my money anybody who has been thorugh the Marine COrps Sniper Instructor course at Quantico does not need SEAL School to be able to operate in SOCOM. Neither should a FORCE RECON members who has been through the Ranger and Amphib Recon/Water Infil courses. To me the ultimate answer is the creation of another Branch of Service that will handle all Strategic Special Operations. There is no reason for each Service to have its own Special ops units many with overlapping capabilites. When you look at Rangers , Green Berets, SEALS, Force Recon. You see many overlapping capabilites although some mission differences. A Special Ops branch would recruit its members mostly form the regualr units of the other Serivces including its aviation components. They would all go through a single certification course, perhopaps Ranger School. Folowing that they would go onto more specialized triang. There would be deep recon units, SF type units, Amphib Seal type units etc. In addition Airborne Battalion Task Forces and Marine Expeditionary Units would be required to go through joint training exercise withe SOCOM uits under SOCOM command. Perhaps the 82nd adn the Marine Corps should also be placed under this new Branch. Operationally, in the real world all the service Branches are under a theater commander anyway which exercises more control than the Service Cheifs.
 
Quote    Reply

BlueLight    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/14/2004 9:11:16 AM
Every special forces is used in there own way. That is why we have different ones. The SEALS are the best at what they do. I only say that because of success and training. I do not think the Marines are a SF. True they do the most fighting of all the other forces, but they are not specially trained for covert operations.
 
Quote    Reply

timon_phocas    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/14/2004 6:10:45 PM
The Marines do have at least one dedicated Special Ops unit. I have only heard of one, called Detachment Six, that operates out of 1st Force Recon Company. It was used in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. That's the last I heard of it. The Corps was tired of losing so many Recon personnel to Delta Force and the SEAL Teams. The Corps also realized that Special Operations are central to the war on terror, and it wanted to have a piece of that action.
 
Quote    Reply

Mike From Brielle    RE:Marine Special Ops   12/28/2004 5:39:34 PM
A long time ago I had just completed a course of electronics (Avionics) study at Millington Memphis Naval Air Station and was fortunate enough to have scored high enough to be sent to a course of study run by the Navy at an Air Force Base. This course was the (I was told) last course in DoD that gave complete system instruction (from direct support to depot level repair) in one course and was highly competitive to get in. All the Marines were E-2's and E-3's and all the rest of the students were E-6's, E-7's and there was even a civilian engineer (guess who got to clean the Class room at the end of each day). Well with about a week left in the course out of about eight months the Navy Master Chief who ran the school separated the Marines (~ 3 of us) away from the rest of the class and told us we were more than likely going to be "Volunteered" to go to the Basic Under Water Demolitions (BUDS) course in Coronado. Something about them not getting enough qualified technicians that could also keep up with the training so they were press ganging any Marine who was not attached to any fleet entity yet but who they felt they could force through BUDS one way or the other and keep up with the technical requirements. The chief said that as long as we could make at least a decent effort in BUDS the need for technicians in Naval Special Warfare would at least put any benefit of doubt in our direction. In any case the three of us ended up not going to BUDS. I was later told it was a close thing and that the Navy has always had a liberal policy about poaching Marine Corps assets as long as they could justify it as to the greater good of the DoN. I think one of the reasons that Marines are reticent to put a "SPECIAL" label on any unit is just this tendency (at least at the time (Mid 70's)) of the Navy's to poach such capabilities. Typically when the Marine Corps does put a label on a unit it?s usually for some function that is so intrinsically intertwined with Marine Corps missions that it can be justified as being inseparable.
 
Quote    Reply

HJ    RE:Marine Special Ops update   12/28/2004 7:44:08 PM
The Marines do indeed possess Special Operations like capability but for years avoided being an official part of SOCOM and establishing an independent USMC Special Ops entity (like Naval Special Warfare Command, Army SOF or Air Force SOF) for a lot of reasons. However, after 9/11, this changed and discussions with NAVSPECWARCOM ensued resulting in deployment of first USMC SOF unit in rotation with SEALs in Afghanistan. See following link for best update on how USMC is integrating into SOF world: link
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: 1 2



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2009StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy