no i'm talking about a marine tank battalion (armor) thet have no mortar support unlike a army tank battalion (armor). the only thing they have the same not really the same but they both have a scout platoon.

 

army tank battalion  scout platoon mortar platoon

marine tank battalion scout platoon tow platoon.

 

 

if theres any tankers out there that can tell me why the marine tank battalions  have no mortars ?

i would have to disagree, because in the beginning of OIF-1 2 marine tank battalion were the lead element of a marine regimental combat team that came in the south east and hooked up north. i know that the MEUs  carry a platoon of tanks and that they are tasked out. but the question still stands. marines only have 81mm mortars and i think they might receive the towed 120mm automated system, i forgot if the LAV-M carries the 81mm or the 120 mm.

 

and if mortars are not needed in a tank battalion as you say, then why do they  have there own scout platoon and TOW platoon.... if they dont fight as a battalion as you said . the infantry battalions already have tow and scout platoons.if they dont need mortars then why have TOWs. do you see were im going with this. i still think a mortar section would be nice.

Well Stinger, they are STILL a battalion Headquarters, so they will be the basis for battalion task force, so thye may need Scouts and  a CAAT Pltn...though that would imply they wuold also need a mortar platoon...good question.

 

 First Gulf Wars I and II were exceptions to the norm. It was a case of the Corps plugging a gap due to a shortage of Army units.  AAAV-7s make for lousy IFVs, The Corps has no self propelled artillery except for HIMARS.  GWI&II were pretty much makeshift operations for the Corps not doctrine/organizational changing events unto themselves. Do we really need a Marine Corps configured to fight as a second land army?

 Second those tank battalions did just fine without organic mortars. As I posted before there are more than sufficient assets in the organization to make it unnecessary for the tank battalion to have its own mortars.

Third, The Marine Corps is acquiring 120mm mortars.

  Fourth the TOWS and stuff were more or less attached put with the tank battalions as a place to put them with the conversion from 106mm, the demise of Anti-tank Battalions and later Force Troops. The TOWs as with the tanks are tasked out. This is not unusual. As an example during the early 80s 2^nd Force Reconnaissance Company was administratively under  the 2d FSSG even though 2^nd FSSG really had no need of them-it was place to put them as operationally they  would be tasked out to other commands (MEUS and MAGTFs).

I just don't understand why your so against not having mortars. or are you just playing devils advocate i do remember at one time when the marines did have paladines 155mm . and then decided to get rid of them because  they were too heavy. they did use them in the first gulf.

 

also  why do the LAR battalions  need mortars? they usually don't fight as a battalion either!!!

I also remember a time when the Marine Corps had 8" and 175s back in the days of the old Field Artillery Groups and the Artillery Regiments had towed 105s but times change.  The Marine Corps under went a fundamental organizational and doctrinal change.  I also remember that in GWI teh Mairne Divisions had Army armored untis attached to give them more heavily armored/mech force.

 

  I can see mortars as part of the LAR becuase they are reconnaissance/screening units and may operate of range of the mortars of the supported unit.  Tanks are more likely to be with the main force.  

 

 Finally the most important reason would be manpower. The Marine Corps is authorized X amount of bodies. Those authorized in the increase are already spoken for. If you give the tank battalions a mortar platoon where to you take the manpower from to create them, the Rifle Battalions or the Helicopter Squadrons? It is more than just mortar crews you would need since this would be a mech mortar force and those additional vehicles would mean more maintenance and logistics personnel. 

 

 Of all the pressing needs of the Corps a mortar platoon for the tank battalions is not one of them.   Heck if I had my choices I would like to see a Sapper/Assault squad per Rifle Company and if the manpower had to come from the tank battalions I would not be all that opposed.