Effectiveness

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Thomas RE:Effectiveness 5/7/2003 7:54:20 AM

Dear Brad Robertson I'm not trying to deminish the accomplishments of the USMC or any other US armed service for that matter. BUT It is a standing joke in NATO circles, that a US service man won't fight unless he is assured, that the Coca-Cola machine is in perfect working order. The US services are not travelling light - but they are effectfull.

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appleciderus RE:Effectiveness 5/16/2003 8:28:49 PM

Imagine that, NATO circles think a US serviceman can't/won't perform as trained unless they have their own personal soft drink machine.

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Thomas RE:Effectiveness 6/13/2003 7:56:59 AM

Is it 20% of a division, that is combat troops - maybe I'm wrong; but 4 manservants pr grunt .....

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joe6pack RE:Effectiveness re thomas 6/13/2003 8:06:40 AM

I actually just stopped over to see what sparked Shaka's "treasonous" comments regarding the Marines / Army. However, in regards to your question about percentage of "combat" troops - doing some rough math in my head 20% might be a little generous. It would also seem to depend on the type of unit. Mech / Armor are lighter in combat troops and much heavier in support. Even light units it might come down to what you count as "combat" troops..

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Shaka of Carthage RE:Effectiveness re thomas 6/13/2003 9:30:18 AM

Here is the first issue. You have to be very specific by what you mean as "combat troops". Are you referring to bayonet strength (I love that term also!)? Guys in the combat manuever battalions? What about DIVARTY? What about Engineers? If you think like a few of us old farts, as in "combat infantrymen", the modern US Army division has like 1500 of them. as in 10%.

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joe6pack RE:Effectiveness 6/13/2003 12:14:14 PM

Figuring the percentage of combat troops.. We should do this more scientificly. Like By assigning a "bayonet value" to a troop. For Instance: 1 infantryman has a value of 1 1 finance clerk has a value of .01 1 legal affairs officer has a value of -.5 (in that it probably takes away bayonet value to have one) 1 artillery troop has a value of .7 So out of a possible 4 or 100% combat / bayonet value you have a 1.21 or roughly 30% which is way better than I think it would turn out in a full sized U.S. division.

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Thomas RE:Effectiveness 6/16/2003 5:26:47 AM

Depending of how you calculate the percentage the range is from "the old fart" factor of 10% to the "lethal bookkeeper" of around 25-30% the estimated of number of manservants per rifle/gun in the right direction is between 3 to 10. Now I'm not saying anything about combat effectiveness, as the results speak for themselves, but: 1. You compare a violin-player with factory whistle. I.e. even though you are better than the next guy - it doesn't mean you are good. I am as Shaka worried about the rise in controller/doer ratio. 2 Nobody ever claimed the american forces travel light. The equipment for instance of the marines is more and better than most armed forces in the world - hence my ironic remark at the original lament.

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