Best Light Infantry in the World?

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GOP RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/27/2005 12:23:00 PM

Is there any question who the best light infantry is? The Rangers. best mission equipped troops? Rangers. They are in the US Army, they have EVERYTHING they need, and then some. fieldcraft - Rangers. These guys are experts at land navigation, etc training rigor - Rangers. 25 mile marches with Rucks are a very normal occurence. 10 mile fast marches, etc, etc. attacking - Rangers. I remember reading that while the Rangers were in Grenada, they made a jump under heavy machine gun fire. The .50 Machinegun's were located up on a hill, and a Corporal started a charge up the hill by saying "I am sick of this sh*t", and charging up the hill, and all the other Rangers followed. They took the machinegun's, the hill, and accomplished their objective without losing anybody. Those guys are warriors. Defending - Probably a French unit of some kind

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FAMAS RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/27/2005 4:27:05 PM

For me, the best are the Foreigh Legion. They are equipped with the last French Army equipment, trained to all land and weather... And they are L�gionnaires, the toughest guys with the toughest discipline...

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svaba RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/27/2005 4:32:48 PM

Italian infantry is the best did you only see their achivements in 2WW the bravest soldiers in whole Italian boot I must say LOL:)

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Ehran RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/27/2005 5:05:38 PM

Ghurkas

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ambush RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/27/2005 5:23:21 PM

As an American I would have to say the UK Royal Marine Commandos. Best trained an most professional that I have ever worked with. That includes, sorry to say, US Army Rangers and US Marines.

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Sam RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/27/2005 6:19:37 PM

As a former US Army soldier and U.S. Marine who has trained with troops from many countries, I agree with Ambush. Can not beat the Brit RMCs

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GOP RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? - Sam/Ambush 8/27/2005 7:07:40 PM

Since you have worked with these guys, I am pretty sure you are right. But, what is the deal? Why can't we get the training thing right? We spend an ungodly amount of money on training, much, much more than any other nation, but everyone talks about the Brits. What is the deal?

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ChdNorm RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/28/2005 1:22:50 AM

I'm generally dont take into consideration things such as equipment or prior training when I think of people that have inspired me so much as simply their actions alone. So maybe I'm not exactly playing by the rules here, but heres my short list of guys that impress the hell out of me. Those that either dropped behind or waded ashore at Normandy. Those that fought in the Pacific on islands from Guadalcanal all the way up thru Okinawa. Those that found themselves right in the path of the Ardennes offensive and stood and fought in small groups. Those that retreated (or attacked in another direction if you prefer) from the far north of Korea while under constant Chinese attack and made it out. The 1st Cav in the Ia Drang, The 101st in the Ashau, the Marines at Hue, the 173rd on Hamburger Hill At any given time most of them werent the best equipped, best trained, or even the best on the field .. but they all possessed the drive and determination to overcome the obstacles in their path and win when it counted. Thats what impresses me more than anything.

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lrsrng RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/28/2005 2:25:27 PM

Detachment101 OSS A handful of Americans and hordes of Kachins secured parts of the Burma -Ledo road between India and China,sabotaged enemy lines of communication Killed more than 15000 hostiles destroyed or captured 3500 tons of supplies rescued 550 allied air crews designated 85% of targets the Tenth Air Force attacked furnished bomb damage assessment and never lost a battle.My second choice would be Merrill's Marauders in the same Theater.

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Yimmy RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/28/2005 3:15:13 PM

Best light infantry? Zulu!

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S-2 RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/28/2005 5:55:22 PM

I started this, so I guess that I'll weigh in. NVA, and Vietminh predecessors. Rangers and Royal Marines are superb, so are other "elite units". But for large forces sustained in long term battle, NVA/Vietminh (and even V.C. mainforce battalions and divisions, though few) may have been perfectly conditioned, trained, and equipped to perform their missions. Zulus? Thought I'd set the early limit at 1939, otherwise I might agree.

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flamingknives RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? - Sam/Ambush 8/28/2005 6:06:34 PM

what is the deal? Why can't we get the training thing right? We spend an ungodly amount of money on training, much, much more than any other nation, but everyone talks about the Brits. What is the deal? Because throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it? The British have been training some of their units, like the RMs, as light infantry since WWII at least. It's also been using them as such during most of that time. Furthermore, during that time they have been mostly volunteers so the British armed forces have been able to build up a wealth of exerience.

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S-2 RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? 8/28/2005 6:18:09 PM

"...what is the deal? Why can't we get the training thing right? We spend an ungodly amount of money on training, much, much more than any other nation, but everyone talks about the Brits. What is the deal? Because throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it?" What's the problem? Our units are excellent, and LARGE. Turnover is higher, cohesion a bit lower, but nothing real fundamentally wrong in overall performance to me. If you'd seen U.S. infantry in the mid-seventies, you'd notice a huge difference for the better these days, across the board.

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ChdNorm lrsrng 8/28/2005 9:58:54 PM

"Detachment101 OSS A handful of Americans and hordes of Kachins secured parts of the Burma -Ledo road between India and China,sabotaged enemy lines of communication Killed more than 15000 hostiles destroyed or captured 3500 tons of supplies rescued 550 allied air crews designated 85% of targets the Tenth Air Force attacked furnished bomb damage assessment and never lost a battle.My second choice would be Merrill's Marauders in the same Theater." lrsrng I seem to recall reading something about their escapades once in a book on the OSS. Are they the ones that requested the old 1863 Springfields to arm indigenous troops with in order to be able to pretty much provide for their own resupply in the field? That's always been one of those stories that stuck with me since I read it ... muskets in WWII!

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ambush RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? - Sam/Ambush 8/29/2005 1:50:50 PM

>>RE:Best Light Infantry in the World? - Sam/Ambush 8/27/2005 7:07:41 PM Since you have worked with these guys, I am pretty sure you are right. But, what is the deal? Why can't we get the training thing right? We spend an ungodly amount of money on training, much, much more than any other nation, but everyone talks about the Brits. What is the deal?<< Where to begin? First, our individual Infantry Battalions, Marine, Ranger, Light, Airborne and Air Assault are among the finest in the world depending where they are at in their training and personnel cycle. These cycles are also part of the problem. In part you are dealing with numbers here. The US Marine Corps is about 20 times larger than the Royal Marines. It needs 5 to 6 times as many recruits a year as there are total personnel in the Royal Marines. US Airborne School puts far more students through a far easier course than British Jump School, which is far more demanding as is service in the Para Regiment vs. the 82nd Airborne and all the jump billets in 18th ?Airborne Corps. Simply put it boils down to money, high attrition equals wasted money so training standards are in part a representation of the attrition you are willing to pay for. This true for Infantry Traingn School also. Another factor is Airborne, Air Assault and to a limited extent Ranger School are ticket punching exercises so demanding high attrition training would be counter productive toward all those officers getting their badges and devices they will never use. Think of that money wasted when you talk about all the money we spend on training Another is that at heart we are a bunch of Candy a**es afraid of the moms of America. A recruit getting killed in Marine Corps basic training can threaten the existence of the Corps and couple of troops die in the swamps of Camp Rudder and Ranger School under goes fundamental changes for the worse. It certainly is not has stressful as it was in 1980 if everything I hear is true (they get more sleep and food and the RIs even have to watch their language) This is reflected in all training in the US military except for the elite units (I am talking SEALs and the like here). If Ranger School was open only to those actually assigned to or going to a Ranger unit it could perhaps avoid the effects of momism. Then again I would not have been able to attend as a Marine. I am not speaking out in favor of trainee abuse or ignoring common sense safety procedure but unfortunately realistic training has some risks if it is to be of any value at all. We do not fire life rounds over the heads of our own troops during training. Even at infiltration courses the noise of a machine from ?gas guns? is used instead of real machine guns least some dummy stand up and catch a round in the brainpan. Instead of lifting and shifting fire during and assault on an objective during training all fire is stopped once troops are forward of the firing line. Should an accident (there is a reason they are called accidents) occur a commander can kiss his career goodbye. So they become risk adverse in outlook toward training. Then there is this damn individual replacement system we cannot seem to get rid of. The Army has an excellent opportunity to go to a true regimental system with its Units of Action (which should be called Regiments or Brigades so as not to sound gay). Getting rid of the stupid up or out policy can offset the resulting lack of promotion opportunities in a Regimental system. But this will probably be another missed opportunity by the Army because too many careers and jobs are wedded to the current personnel system. I always maintain it is not really how much you spend but how you spend it. We spend a lot of money moving people around for ?career development?. The UK with their Regimental system suffers from far less personnel turbulence and it is possible on enlist in the UK military for twenty years on single enlistment. As good as NTC, JRTC and 29 Palms training is how often do the same units keep making the same mistakes each time they rotate through there. How many units rotate through their with even 75% of the personnel they had on their last rotation? This is particularly true of unit leadership. Troop leaders are not allowed to spend a lot of time leading troops before they are moved on to non-leadershiop career enhancing positions.

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