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Subject: ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?
AchtungLagg    8/24/2004 1:37:15 AM
im having a hard time understanding why the japanese infantry performed so badly (casualty wise) to us infantry during wwii.
how were abilities (mis)matched in the PTO?
 
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beersheba    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/24/2004 1:41:31 AM
They certainly didn't suck! They were stubbon defenders, which meant they'd rather be burnt out rather than surrender. American and Australian troops had to go and dig them out and kill them most of the time. Some of their offensive tactics could be dodgy though. Plus the Allied troops were pretty top shelf themselves.
 
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joe6pack    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/24/2004 10:38:17 AM
"im having a hard time understanding why the japanese infantry performed so badly (casualty wise) to us infantry during wwii." Some quick examples: Part of it was their beleif system. They would not retreat or surrender when their positions were no longer defendable. The "Banzai" charge while frightening wasn't alway a good idea against machineguns. So their code of Bushido which worked to keep moral up, often had poor tactical outcomes for them. I beleive the average US infantry platoon packed a lot more fire power than their Japanese equivalent. While on the other side of the world, the Germans usually had more fire power per platoon. Other factors.. US Marines were really pioneering combined arms action. They were developing CAS and usually could bring a lot of fire power to bear on a targert between naval gunfire, armor and aircraft. And probably one of the most overlooked factors.. We were pissed off. I've spoken with my grandfather who served in the pacific and spoken with other WWII veterans and even 50 years after the war they still harbor a lot anger for Japan. But to say the Japanese infantry "sucked" would be wrong.
 
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Ehran    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/24/2004 4:48:01 PM
one of the things about the jappanese soldier was that he was entirely too willing to die in his foxhole or bunker. really good infantry makes you pay dearly for ground then falls back and makes you pay dearly for the next bit of ground. the world war 2 german soldier was a master of this trick for instance.
 
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wagner95696    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 12:05:29 AM
They were brave enough but they were simply outgunned. Hundreds of thousands of Japanese died, not in combat but from hunger and disease.
 
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scholar    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 12:45:19 PM
I never really understood the Japanese strategy. They really seemed content to settle into a defensive action. From what I've read, being in the Japanese infantry on those islands was hell. The US poured on massive firepower. I'm surprised any survived.
 
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joe6pack    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 2:45:05 PM
"I never really understood the Japanese strategy. They really seemed content to settle into a defensive action." As the war progressed, their navy didn't have the capacity to move them. They were literally stuck in place in a lot of cases and could not be evacuated. Instead of surrendering after their support was cut, with no hope of resupply.. They either kept fighting or would head for the hills to avoid capture.. I think there was the occasional story of Japanese soldiers finally coming out of hiding up until the late 70's..
 
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scholar    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 3:37:15 PM
I remember those stories. Amazing. Any other army would have surrendered en masse or maybe even mutineed.
 
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beersheba    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 10:53:52 PM
There were reports that a junior officer was found as late as the early 80s. I'll try and get the link for the yarn.
 
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ambush    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 11:07:54 PM
They did not suck. They lacked flexibility (No withdrawl or retreat and what type of offensive genuis thought up the Banzi charge) and had mediocre to poor equipment. Lacked really good artillery support. Part of the blame belongs to the high command which believed racial superiority and the Bushido spirit would make up for short comings in equipment and tactics. Do not sell them too short; after all this is the same Infantry that took Singapore, Burma and the Phillipines.
 
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doggtag    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 11:23:28 PM
I think joe6pack brought up a good point: as the war progressed, the Allies effectively reduced Imp Jap logistics to zero, so basically the guys ran out of food, ammo, and medicine. And coupled to a mentality that encouraged them to die for their cause (emperor) rather than live for it, naturally the best men of the Imp Jap military we didn't kill killed themselves. Their skills as soldiers were indeed impressive, at the early years of the war. But lack of logistics later on, coupled to their brainwashed "die so you do not shame the emperor" mentality, gave them a poor stereotype overall..
 
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Crosshair    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what? Nope, their weapons did.   8/25/2004 11:31:31 PM
There was a special on the History Channel. Basicly said that Japanese guns overall sucked compared to the US counterparts. I think I heard that during peak production, the US made more light machineguns in one month. Than the entire Japanese industry produced in the entire war. They never mass prodused an effective submachinegun either. I got to handle an early Japanese WW2 infantry rifle. To put it nicely it would have made a better club than a rifle, underpowered, fragile. My Mosin-Nagat is a cannon compared to this thing.
 
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mike_golf    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?   8/25/2004 11:40:44 PM
scholar wrote: "I never really understood the Japanese strategy. They really seemed content to settle into a defensive action." Bear in mind that the Japanese strategy was to initially take the offensive until they could secure a defensible line and then go on the strategic defensive. The allies were able to disrupt this plan at Guadalcanal, Coral Sea and Midway. The other piece of this is that the Japanese had reached the full extent of their strategic reach by mid 1942. They simply did not have the resources to continue the offensive, or return to the offensive after being checked in 1942. Their only hope was to stop us defensively.
 
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doggtag    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what? Nope, their weapons did.   8/25/2004 11:41:01 PM
One could almost consider all the fallacies and sufferings of Imp Jap troops in the later war years as "justifiable payback" for all the atrocities they committed in the PTO..
 
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scholar    RE:ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what? Nope, their weapons did.   8/26/2004 9:49:45 AM
"One could almost consider all the fallacies and sufferings of Imp Jap troops in the later war years as "justifiable payback" for all the atrocities they committed in the PTO." I guess one could say that they earned some seriously bad karma in China. I'm not shedding tears for them any more than I do for German soldiers on the Eastern Front, however, the conditions in which those guys must have lived/fought sparks the imagination. I wonder...are there any Japanese movies or books that depict it? Any Japanese "Alls Quiet on the Western Front"? I was pleased with the depiction for Japanese soldiers in The Thin Red Line, a movie that I otherwise totally hated. A few images in particular conveyed at least a sense of misery and shock. I'd love to see a reverse "Saving Private Ryan." Say, Iwo Jima from a Japanese perspective. I kind of imagine a few soldiers being all "we must die for the emperor" gung-ho. A few just scared out of their wits. And one quiet guy thinking, "screw the Emperor, I want to get the hell out of here."
 
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joe6pack    RE:ww2 jap infantry- movies - scholar   8/26/2004 10:39:06 AM
I'm not aware of any Japanese war movies in the line of "Saving Private Ryan". Film making in Japan really started post WWII and during US occupation and since then WWII is a very sensitive subject.. Not to mention a subject that greatly bothers Japans neighbors. The Japanese Prime Minister visiting a war shrine usually sparks protests from China, Korea and others. I did some checking.. you may want to look for "Ningen no Joken" (The Human Condition) by Kobayashi Masaki. I think it's sort of a Japanese "Schindlers List" done in the late 50's. Its a multi part story about a guy named Kaji who is sent to manchuria to supervise a mining camp during the war.
 
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