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Subject: ww2 jap infantry- did they suck or what?
AchtungLagg    8/24/2004 1:37:15 AM
im having a hard time understanding why the japanese infantry performed so badly (casualty wise) to us infantry during wwii. how were abilities (mis)matched in the PTO?
 
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Ehran    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/27/2004 3:06:58 PM
it seems they could have given the japs more than 3 days to decide on surrender before hitting nagasaki. the invasion wasn't imminent by any means so there wasn't much time pressure.
 
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scholar    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/27/2004 3:51:39 PM
Did we give them an ultimatum after Hiroshima? Like, surrender in 24 hours or we do it again?
 
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joe6pack    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/27/2004 4:11:26 PM
"Did we give them an ultimatum after Hiroshima? Like, surrender in 24 hours or we do it again?" Not exactly.. If I remember correctly, after Truman got word that the weapon had been successfully tested he released the "Potsdam Declaration" calling on Japan to surrender. It sort of hinted that we were had a new weapon capable of great destruction and the Japanese would be well advised to surrender. This was promptly ignored by the Japanese. Hours after the Hiroshima bomb, Truman addressed the nation explaining that we had developed and dropped an atomic weapon on Hiroshima. I think this was sort of the, ok the super weapon is now public knowlwedge, we have more and will use them declaration... However, I'd have to do some checking to see if a formal message demanding surrender was sent after Hirsoshima.
 
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beersheba    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/28/2004 3:23:58 AM
Perhaps Ehran, but after six long years, I think the Allieds wanted it over and done with quickly. I don't think the Allies back then were fans of setting time limits like nations are these days..
 
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PuckaMan    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/28/2004 3:49:04 AM
Another point to realise is the agreement with Stalin to declare war on Japan 3 months after Geramny was defeated. After almost totally ignoring Churchill's "We should shake hands with the Soviets as far east as possible", the USA was acutely aware that the Allied-Soviet pact was one of convienience, and Soviet occupation/control of even a Part of Japan, especially with its skilled technical and industrial base would alter the power balance in the Pacific on a very large scale. A 1950s US assesment concluded that "Soviet control of Japan would add a further 25% to thier industrail capacity, and provide a large pool of skilled labor and knowledge that would have a large impact on Soviet technology and capability" - So the need to knock out Japan before the Soviets could intervene was paramount, so any way to shorten the war and force the Japanese to surrender to the Western Allies, was paramount. BTW, found out today where I'll be living in Japan - I'll be in Tokyo (my 2nd preference, 1st was Osaka) -I'm leaving late next month. Trading Melbourne for Tokyo...... exciting and daunting. I'm looking forward to it, like a kid the last few days before Christmas......... Pucka
 
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Ehran    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/28/2004 7:57:28 PM
would the russians have had any way to actually invade japan? their amphib capacity was never anything to boast about. the allies could have moved the dday fleet into the pacific but the russians had nothing vaguely comparable. good luck with the move puckaman. hope whatever you do pays well cause japan is supposed to be a hellish expensive place to live.
 
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PuckaMan    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/28/2004 8:08:06 PM
Thanks Ehran, it is expensive, but some things are quite cheap (electronics, etc.) but the company I'll be woking for, pays pretty well. Well, considering Stalin declared war on Japan the day of Hiroshima, they must have thought they could do it - landing on Hokkaido which is comparitively sparsely populated. I strongly doubt they would have gone for Honshu. Then again, with the Soviet Masses (and the will to use them whatever the cost) would have most likely overcome Japan, whose Navy was all but destroyed, the primary resources were low or depleted (oil esp.) and thier most skilled/experienced troops/pilots dead. Also, the Soviets had already fought the Japanese in 1938, when the T34 made its comabt debut and Zhukov came to prominece - the opportunity to regain old Manchuria and possibly prominent Pacific Island was too good to pass up. Pucka
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/28/2004 8:17:17 PM
Puka, I'd argue that Stalin declared war on japan as an issue of opportunism. He had no idea how many atomic weapons the yanks had and decided to hedge his bets on the fact that the Japanese would be unable to respond effectively. It was a good excuse to go and sieze some Islands in the north which AFAIK are still in dispute. Some people would call it grave robbing. ;)
 
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PuckaMan    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/29/2004 8:35:56 PM
Yeah Sakhalin is a point of contention, I believe. Re Stalin's opportunitism, that goes back to the point I was making about Nagasaki - to show the world (Stalin particularly) that the Bomb was not a one off........ Pucka
 
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Ehran    RE:Hiroshima and Nagasaki humane   8/30/2004 1:52:42 PM
i doubt stalin had any ideas about landing on japan itself but there was a lot of jap occupied land in manchuria up for grabs.
 
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