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Subject: Two Battalions That Should Never Meet
SYSOP    12/30/2012 10:51:18 AM
 
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bikebrains    Typo   12/30/2012 12:18:19 PM
"Intolerance od secular Jews has been a growing problem with Haredi men." should read " Intolerance of secular Jews has been a growing problem with Haredi men."
 
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Dave_in_Pa       12/30/2012 7:55:03 PM
"Intolerance od secular Jews has been a growing problem with Haredi men." should read " Intolerance of secular Jews has been a growing problem with Haredi men."
 
No, it should read "Intolerance of secular Jews and Israeli women in general has been a growing problem with Haredi men."
 
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Tucci78    Like the old British regimental system?   12/30/2012 8:03:44 PM
In the British military (especially during the Indian Raj), there had long been regiments whose battalions were recognized as incompatible with those of other corps.  The regiments began and continued for centuries training their own recruits in their own depots, meaning that an enlisted man - particularly in an infantry regiment - could serve out his whole career without experiencing more than brief detachments to Army schools, garrisons, or other establishments.  Very insular, but it seemed to work.
 
 A Haredi "regimental" establishment would seem practicable, wouldn't it?  Their own basic training facilities, their own branch specialty school detachments (physically isolated from those in which their countrymen and women of more catholic tolernces train), perhaps even their own combat brigade eventually. 
 
When they're in the field as footsloggers, gun bunnies, and track crackers, what sorts of negative effects could a Netzah Yehuda service branch have on the secular troops?  It might even vest the ultra-Orthodox with a sense of special value as combatants, evoking the Old Testament history of the Jews as fearsome fighting men eagerly sought by foreign kings as guards and mercenaries. 
 
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Dave_in_Pa       12/30/2012 8:54:15 PM
"Intolerance od secular Jews has been a growing problem with Haredi men." should read " Intolerance of secular Jews has been a growing problem with Haredi men."
 
No, it should read "Intolerance of secular Jews and Israeli women in general has been a growing problem with Haredi men."
 
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trenchsol       12/31/2012 1:52:46 AM
In Japan there are two main religions, Buddhism and Shintoism. They seem to coexist in complete harmony. Also, there are no reports of religion interfering with politics. It is known that in Japan is not uncommon for a person to follow more than one religion in the same time.
 
Shintoism and Buddhism are related. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are related, as well.
 
Perhaps Japan should start sending emissaries around the world.
 
DG
 
 
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Tucci78    Japan's religious contributon   12/31/2012 5:50:14 AM
Of course, there's also Aum Shinrikyo (aka "Aleph"). 
 
When it comes to Japan "sending emissaries around the world," the words can't help evoking memories of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, the indigenous forced labor used so murderingly in Thailand (remember The Bridge on the River Kwai?) and the rest of Southeast Asia during the Japanese military campaigns in that region, the Bataan death march and similar deliberate deadly maltreatment of (not to mention command decisions to execute) Western prisoners of war, the various policies regarding relations with civilians in occupied areas like the Philippines, China, Malaya, present-day Indonesia, various of the lesser Pacific islands....
 
Or how terms like "Banzai charge" and "Kamikaze" gained common usage in the American language.
 
All of this was quite compatible with Japanese culture as influenced by Shintoism and Buddhism.  
 
Om mane padme hum.... 
 
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trenchsol       1/1/2013 4:23:18 PM
I am talking about religious tolerance, not about politics. Japanese politics is not known to be influenced by religion. At least not to me. I was expect that someone might make such comment.
 
I mean, Vietnamese are also known for mistreating prisoners, torturing and killing political opposition, but you can't attribute it to buddhism. Not to even mention what happened in Cambodia during Khmer Rouge rein.
 
On the other hand, Judaism, Christianity and Islam has long tradition of interfering and even creating politics.
 
I mean, if we could get rid of religious intolerance, we would have 25%, perhaps even 50% less problems to deal with. You always have problems because of conflicting interests, and those are real problems, can't be ignored. Religious intolerance just makes things worse.
 
DG
 
 
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cwDeici       1/3/2013 2:17:39 PM


I am talking about religious tolerance, not about politics. Japanese politics is not known to be influenced by religion. At least not to me. I was expect that someone might make such comment.

 

I mean, Vietnamese are also known for mistreating prisoners, torturing and killing political opposition, but you can't attribute it to buddhism. Not to even mention what happened in Cambodia during Khmer Rouge rein.

 

On the other hand, Judaism, Christianity and Islam has long tradition of interfering and even creating politics.

 

I mean, if we could get rid of religious intolerance, we would have 25%, perhaps even 50% less problems to deal with. You always have problems because of conflicting interests, and those are real problems, can't be ignored. Religious intolerance just makes things worse.

 

DG

 

Tell me how much Judaism and Christianity are to blame.
 
Secondly, the Japanese have been pretty good at killing each other in the past, and others as well. The peacefulness of Japanese society these days has more to do with a pacifist constitution and a softened but still rigidly authoritarian culture that emphasizes harmony but breaks down into fits of violence when the system is upset than anything else.
 
Seems like you're enamored with two religions far enough away for the grass to be greener on the other side.
 
Granted Christianity IS more violent than most Asian religions (though far less so than Judaism and Islam), but it (in particular Protestantism) has also had a large hand in generating liberalism and capitalism, the former of which is one of the most peaceful influences on the world today.
 
 
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cwDeici       1/3/2013 2:28:38 PM
But still, good questions, maybe I came off a bit wrong.
 
So yes, but no. Religions are not equal, they have good and bad sides. You are right the Semitic religions are more violent (in particular Islam, though Judaism has been just as bad at times - Christianity has been violent more tactically than strategically (also: Hitler was a cultist and Stalin and Mao were atheists) in general, but there are some pretty violent tendencies within Asian religions too, but I only know a little about them, but there's some pretty nasty gods within those pantheons, some of which have been quite inspiring as regards public executions in Imperial China.
 
Anyway Islam was founded by a warlord. The Old Testament which is shared by Jews and Christians (though Christians don't have all the books) approves of genocide here and there. Jesus was a bit of a pacifist though he was ok with serving in the military. Early Latin Christianity got very tactically violent at times, but was never strategically discriminative like most muslim societies who were more tactically peaceful (the Ottomans were also quite strategically tolerant in some ways), but was generally on a peaceful trend, due to the anchors of scripture.
 
Religions will revolve around their core scriptures, but also be affected by historical progress - while Judaism is extremely violent in some ways it has reformed immensely among the dominant sections of Judaism. The Koran is straight from Allah though so while Islam has at times evolved in peaceful directions (though treating other members as second class, but more respectfully, though very harsh on their own members for apostasy) it is pulled back by the need to interpret Allah's word literally. Christianity otoh tends to revert to Jesus' words, but with the militant undertone of the battles of the afterlife and the Old Testament.
 
I really don't know too much about Asian religions, but Hinduism is very peaceful for example, but encourages the caste system which is massive institutionalized discrimination.  
 
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cwDeici       1/3/2013 2:31:19 PM
But yeah, 'breaks down into fits of violence if the system breaks down' is a bit unfair towards Japan, given how well they handled the recent tsunami. Granted, they cooperated extremely well, but there were also militias formed to prevent looting. I guess what I'm saying is they work well together, but that authoritarianism/harmony goes both ways, as in the wars of Imperial Japan and the way they treated their serfs pretty much like the Russians did.
 
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