stopping power

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macawman RE:stopping power 3/12/2003 11:58:48 PM

Note: The effective kill range of a shotgun is extended 10 meters with a 10 guage shotgun with 3 inch shells beyond the 30 meter effective kill range of a 12 guage. The big drawback is the increased bulk and weight of a 10 guage weapon makes it impractical MOUT use. But what amazing kenetic energy from personal weapon for that distance.

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Final Historian RE:stopping power 3/13/2003 3:46:39 AM

I agree that stopping power is critical when you are fighting up close, I believe I mentioned that rifles were effect past 50 yards, more like 50 feet in real life. Under that distance though you want large, heavy rounds to knock someone down and keep them down. A .45 round is ideal, a sub machine gun that fires it would be ideal, large clip size, fast rate of fire, and stopping fire. 9mm rounds do more trauma, but they don't shock enough. Neither do newer 5.56 mm rounds. The original ones tumbled and did a lot of damage, and this had a similar incapacitatin effect, but the newer rounds don't cut it. Its a tough call on what to pick.

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fred79 RE:stopping power 3/13/2003 10:54:08 PM

a correctly equipted shotgun can kill out to 80m especially with the new jacketed sabot rounds. and the 5.56 has virtually no penetrating capability through different layers of mass. a study was done and found that through wall board and 2x4 the 5.56 would only penatrate 1 in the same study 9mm and .45 caliber handgun round were found to penetrate multiple layer of wallboard 2x4's and concrete block. The 5.56 round has a problem at long ranges. between 50-300 yards it is ballistically very effiecent for a soldier since it requires little though about aiming that was the problem with the m-14 and the m1 garrand it requires the individual to guess the range and ajust the gun. history has shown range can make a differenc whenthe marine first got to france in WW1 they were engaging germans at 700yrds. but we will assume that since we are more modern than that and are using vehicle to close that range that eliminates the need for long range shooting. the next thing is the stopping power of the 5.56 round unfortunatly it doesn't have great stopping power, but in normal combat against normal people that is not that necesarry since the goal of the infantry soldier is to not kill other soldier bu tto would them depending on the moral of the enemy to care for thier woulnded taking active soldiers off the field in order to take the woulnded from the field. in close combat it is necessar though to stop enemys almost instantly unfortunatly it is impossible to develope a single weapon to do all the roles at this time. The only way i can see to deveelope a system that would do as many roles as possible is to use a single large barrel and multiple types of amunition. unfortunatly this would require a great deal more training that would cost more and require more intelligent soldier in the infantry. the best weapon i can imagine would be based on a shotgun useing a smooth barrel but with a different action allowing use of clips the problem is the size of the clips to use a large caliber like a 12g. it would require large heavy clips or a new type of system that could reduce the lenght of the shell a great deal until a system like that could be found i don't think it is likely to have a universaly effective gun. until then we will have to use tactics to maximise the m-16.

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macawman RE:stopping power 3/14/2003 12:56:10 PM

The problem with accuracy with the early M-16A1s,5.56 in hitting a distant target beyond 150 yds were crosswinds of over 10 mph. In the 80's the Army went to a heavier 5.56 bullet, thanks to the Marines and the A2 rifle. The sweet thing about the 5.56 is its almost flat trajectory out to 300yds. Crosswinds are not a significant factor with the M-14,7.62 but at 300yds+ the bullet drops over a foot. Combat sight in was at 300yds and aimed at the head at 500yds for body hits. Aimed at the bottom of the target at 50yds. I bet the range and accuracy of the Springfield 03 with a capable rifleman behind it was something of a surprise to the Germans in WW I.

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fred79 RE:stopping power 3/14/2003 10:23:32 PM

I know a man who won a stock class three gun shoot with a 1903 springfield with bayonet,1911 handgun and a model 95 shotgun. he carried ap round to defeat targets behind walls and used teh bayonet for close kills. beat alot of guys with ar-15's and FAL's.

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216BC Body armor? 7/10/2003 10:48:40 AM

A while back I read that 5.56 does a better job penetrating kevlar than does 7.62. Can anyone confirm?

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joe6pack RE:Body armor? re: 216bc 7/10/2003 11:18:01 AM

I don't have anything off hand to back this up with - but an educated guess would be no. Particularly if we are talking about the higher threat level body armor with plates. I'm dubious of your plain old kevlar vest being able to stop either although it might reduce some of the damage...

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11b10 RE:Body armor? re: 216bc 7/10/2003 1:46:39 PM

What 7.62 round are you talking about there are many, all with different characteristics.It also depends on the length of the barrel the rounds were fired from.The shorter the barrel the lower the muzzle velocity.

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Parsifel RE:stopping power 7/10/2003 3:18:46 PM

As an ex-user of M1911A1, I will sing its praises. The beauty is it will work always, in almost any condition. If I pick on us and shake it, I want to hear the guts rattle, then I trust it. Thank God for low-tech sometimes.

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M4A3E2(76)W RE:Bullet penetration 7/10/2003 4:47:05 PM

Bullet penetration was mentioned, here is an interesting site on the topic. link

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