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Subject: Troops Angry At Media Bias and Laziness
SYSOP    7/21/2008 5:26:13 AM
 
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Cannoneer No. 4       7/21/2008 6:03:58 AM
 

"People are saying that this was a full-up [forward operating base]/combat outpost, and that is absolutely false and not true. There were no walls," Preysler said, latter adding, "FOB denotes that there are walls and perimeters and all that. It?s a vehicle patrol base, temporary in nature."

But that doesn?t mean the soldiers were not prepared to take on the enemy, he said.

"Now, obviously when you halt, you start prepping your defenses, and in this case we had [observation posts] and protective wire, we had the vehicles deployed properly to take advantage of their fields of fire, and we set up like that all over the place, and we do it routinely," he said.

The Army did not "abandon" the base after the attack, as many media reporters have suggested, Preysler said.

He said the decision to move from the location following the attack was to reposition, which his men have done countless times throughout their tour, and to move closer to the local seat of government.

"If there?s no combat outpost to abandon, there?s no position to abandon," he said. "It?s a bunch of vehicles like we do on patrol anywhere and we hold up for a night and pick up any tactical positions that we have with vehicle patrol bases.

"We do that routinely.... We?re always doing that when go out and stay in an area for longer then a few hours, and that?s what it is. So there is nothing to abandon. There was no structures, there was no COP or FOB or anything like that to even abandon. So, from the get-go, that is just [expletive], and it?s not right."

 
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Cannoneer No. 4    The nine men who died at that Combat Outpost were not nine victims   7/21/2008 6:12:11 AM
The Story Is About Honor and Valor, Not Victims

If there is a shred of intellectual honesty and journalist ethics in our MSM, then this is a story that should be told with at least the amount of space and intensity given to Abu Ghraib.
 
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trenchsol       7/21/2008 9:37:50 AM
Perhaps the military should stop talking to the media and rely to own media outlets, web sites, maybe magazines. I mean strict "no comment" policy on everything. That would leave he media with hostile sources of information only, which would undermine their credibility. It has nothing to do with the freedom of the press, because it deals with publishing.
 
DG

 
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alive    I do not trust the us army   7/21/2008 10:16:42 AM
Barbed wire makes a base for me.
The taliban took their dead with them. Yeah right.
I guess it was a lot of wasting of ammo, until the planes came and did the fighting, an taliban wisely retreated.
 

 
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Whispering_Death       7/21/2008 11:05:39 AM
I have a similar skepticism as Alan.
 
Either we didn't kill as many Taliban as the army/strategypage would have you believe or the Army has the worst PR department in the world.  If this was a great victory with tens of hundreds of Taliban dead what better PR coup could the army want than to inject those facts into the consciousness of the MSM?  Either they have the worst PR department ever or the facts aren't what they wish they where.  Because no army spokesman has released a number of Taliban dead in the attacks to my knowledge.
 
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flyingarty    the difference   7/21/2008 11:17:17 AM
The diference is that we dont not revel in how many foes we kill, nor do we drag their bodies through the streets. We do  kill the enemy because we must. We do not display our so called trophies, nor do regard the fallen, even the Taliban, that way.
 
flyingarty
 
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JFKY    Whispering and Alive   7/21/2008 12:36:21 PM
The Viet Cong and the NVA BOTH carried off their dead and wounded, as would the the US...do you think units LIKE leaving their dead and wounded behind?

 
And Whispering the US ground forces aren't waging Vietnam, they don't DO body counts or have you missed that.  We're not in the business of giving a daily/weekly total of presumed enemy dead. And no one said anything about tens of hundreds, it was a tribal war firefight there probably weren't tens of hundreds of casualties, there were probably TENS of casualties...
 
Most tribal units aren't going to take 30% casualties before they break off combat, they are going to take a much lower level of damage and then decide the risks aren't worth the loot they are likely to receive.
 
Finally the US army isn't claiming this was Thermopylae, some great victory, it was a small, but deadly action in Afghanistan, resulting in more bad guys getting killed than good guys, and the good guys held their base and the bad guys fell back...as you would expect.  The only people talking about how this is being claimed to be some great "victory" is you guys... the 173rd Abn. isn't claiming to have won the Battle of the Bulge or Iwo Jima, just that they didn't lose.  It's an entirely different thing.
 
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ironmonkey    ironmonkey   7/21/2008 5:39:42 PM
What's with the skepticism "Whispering Alive"?  Even if this was a great victory with hundreds of thousands of Taliban dead, do you think the media would get it right?  Most of the liberal media can't wait to criticize anything the military does, or for that matter doesn't do.  WAY TO GO 173rd!!!! Hope you kick some more Taliban a---.
 
From all I have read the 9 who died fought bravely for what they believed in.  May they be eternally blessed.
 
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JFKY    Alive?   7/21/2008 6:14:39 PM
Is it UNFAIR to use CAS and Artillery, just a question?  How about mortars and automatic weapons?  OR should both sides just duke it out man-a-mano, fisticuffs?  I'm just intrigued, about your comment about Air Power and then the Taliban retreated?  Are you upset the Taliban had to retreat or upset that the US/Afghani forces cheated and used air power?  Please be more specific.  Are your complaints along the lines of those who felt that the Soviets and Americans "cheated" by having tens of thousands of tanks, or that the US forces cheated by using massive amoounts of indirect fire power in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, that UNLESS you destroy your enemy squad-on-squad, or platoon-on-platoon some how it wasn't quite sporting?
 
Would YOUR army have relied upon cold steel and manly nerves to have defeated a force that outnumbered it by a factor of as much as seven:one?
 
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Gerry       7/21/2008 6:59:00 PM
One has to understand its no longer the main stream media, its the news for profit media. Accuracy, accountability, etc are not the objective of the "news for profit" organizations, sales of thier product is. Thank goodness for the web.
 
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alive    relax   7/22/2008 4:14:29 AM
I am not saying it is unfair to use artillery, where in your clean wholesome mind did you dream that up.
The point is giving correct info to the public. Not hiding the wounded or dead. 
And please stop with that gunghoo patriotism, its sickening. Spend your energy on the poor wounded soldiers
rotting away in some hospital. At least my country take care of their wounded. It seems that the US have it in their mouth.   And for the record,  i suport the war in Afghanistan. If only you assholes had helped the russkies  and not
osama , things would have looked different.

 
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Whispering_Death       7/22/2008 8:07:00 AM
Alive, that's some of the most ignorant crap I've read on the comments part of this website in a very long time.
 
As for the article, my point was that I found it ironic that an article entitled "Media Bias and Laziness" would include no statistics, no interviews, no sources of any kind, and very few facts at all.  It reaks of equal ammounts of bias and laziness as the MSM's coverage, just comming from the other side.
 
I find it curious that so many commentors on strategypage have a blind faith in the military but no faith in the MSM.  While I'm skeptical about the obvious MSM bias, you can't come out and try to claim the battle was misrepresented by the MSM and insinuate it was actually a great victory yet include no sourced facts of any kind.  That's just as lazy if no moreso than what the MSM does.
 
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alive    you are duped   7/22/2008 9:07:49 AM

Alive, that's some of the most ignorant crap I've read on the comments part of this website in a very long time.
>
its not ignorant crap. Maybe a bit rude, but with truth embedded. The afghanistan mess is partly your own goverments fault.
To little to late, with a lot f baggage in form of old croonies turned enemies. >

As for the article, my point was that I found it ironic that an article entitled "Media Bias and Laziness" would include no statistics, no interviews, no sources of any kind, and very few facts at all.  It reaks of equal ammounts of bias and laziness as the MSM's coverage, just comming from the other side.
>
Correct me if i am wrong, but is it not forbidden in the us to show your soldiers the last respect, by putting pictures of their return i the newspaper or televison. (I mean the coffins)
 >
I find it curious that so many commentors on strategypage have a blind faith in the military but no faith in the MSM.  While I'm skeptical about the obvious MSM bias, you can't come out and try to claim the battle was misrepresented by the MSM and insinuate it was actually a great victory yet include no sourced facts of any kind.  That's just as lazy if no moreso than what the MSM does.
 
>
The problem with strategy pages is to much faith and blatant propaganda. I read it for the tech stuff.
I presume you are a us citizen. Your country are in big trouble. Lots of it has to do with a war you cannot afford, and probably cannot win either. The true cost for the soldiers who return with deep emotional scars, and physical scars is not known. It seems that you have not prepared for it either. This is why i find your patriotism so revolting. All gungho and go and figth for the flag, but do not come running to us when you need help in 20 years time. 
No one knows the emotional cost of the new training of troops. Condition them to fire witout thinking. Previous soldiers seldom killed anyone. I guess only the sociopaths trive on killing. The others will be emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives. Are you prepared to pay the bills for them.  >



 
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JFKY    Alive and Whispering...   7/22/2008 11:13:05 AM
Well Alive you are in your own universe.  You are a citizen of what country, if I might ask?  YOUR country is taking care of its soldiers, but not the US?  I'm sorry what nation is doing a better job?
 
A war we can't afford and can't win?  Really so the US can't afford less than 1% of GDP on Iraq AND Afghanistan?  Who'd a thought...and if we're losing how come the Taliban don't control anything in Afghanistan, they are at best at Phase I of Mao's guerrilla primer, and are increasingly unpopular with those who have to live with them.
 
And Whispering, well I am critical of the MSM because of Micah Wright, Ms Amorte (sp.), Jessie MacBeth, the uncritical use of stringers in Iraq with ties to AQI, the fact that the MSM now DON'T cover Iraq, as the Surge succeeds, and a number of other reasons.
 
I really don't have an opinion on this particualr battle...except to point out that you and Alive seem to think the US Army was "claiming" some great victory, and instead the 173rd Abn Bgd is simplying saying, it wasn't defeated...which on one level is certainly true, the Taliban retreated...it would take a more in-depth discussion to determine if one or both sides or NEITHER achieved their aims in the fight.
 
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alive    jfky   7/22/2008 12:09:01 PM
Well. This is the result from a quick search on google.  (veterans wounded benefits)
 
link
 
link />
 
link

 
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