The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - August 29, 2008

Advertisement


Advertisement



New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Squad Battles: Winter War
2.Silent War
3.Manoeuvre
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 

Online Giving

Utah SEO Firm

Xango

Smiley Gifts for Babies

Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
Infantry Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Now Mandatory For Marines To Master Martial Arts
SYSOP    7/23/2007 5:04:10 AM
 
Quote    Reply
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Pages: 1 2 3   NEXT
Horsesoldier       7/23/2007 10:42:49 AM
The importance of combatives training is demonstrated on a pretty daily basis over in the big cat box, so I think the Marines have a good idea.
 
Adding their own in-house belt system, however, is about the gayest thing any military organization has done since some ancient Greek units actually required you to be gay to join.  Even those guys may think the USMC belts are gayer, hard to say.
 
Quote    Reply

Kammak    What happened to LINE?   7/23/2007 11:12:02 AM
Anyone remember LINE training in the Marines in the '90s?  That was the Marine fighting program then, and it was a hoot.  Is the current program related at all to LINE?  FYI - The "acronym" LINE is not actually an acronym.  The guy who created it needed a name for the style, so a bunch of words were thrown together and created LINE.  Useless trivia tidbit for you.  :)  
 
Quote    Reply

Nichevo       7/23/2007 11:27:11 AM
These training regimes are the bunk.  Not in themselves but in that they are necessary.  Americans used to know how to fight.  If they would just permit Marines and other troops their traditional privilege of drinking and whoring, the resultant brawl culture would be all the hand-to hand that other than specialists would need. 

But of course we are all brought up now with "hitting is wrong" and "what do you mean Lucky Strikes are a nickel a pack at the PX" and other health/morality fascism, so just as hardly nobody (at least not in urban areas) has a childhood background with responsible firearms use, we need lessons in Remedial Hitting.
 
Quote    Reply

Kammak    B.S.   7/23/2007 12:09:08 PM
RE: "These training regimes are the bunk."
 
And how many hand-to-hand fights to the death have you personally been in?  How many times have you been punched in the face?  How would you respond to being attacked by a guy with a blade while you are unarmed?
 
What an ignorant comment to make.  These programs are exceeding useful because they place the focus on the Marine as weapon, rather than on hardware and equipment.  When we began line training, the first step was having everyone get punched in the face - not a knockout blow, but a closed fist punch - you'd be surprised how many people have never been punched in the face before.  That is not an experience you want for the first time when you are fighting for your life.  The WMs usually started crying right away (most, not all, but most). 
 
Aside from the mental aspects of personal confidence and aggressiveness, the programs, when done routinely, instill the muscle memory that enables reflexive action and eases re-learning the skill after periods of no training.  That is priceless.  Having a reflexive response to personal attack is not something that Americans in general have EVER had.  That comes from practice, practice, practice - and the more that US servicemen are exposed to this type of training, the better.
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Nichevo       7/23/2007 12:34:23 PM
Is it all Marines who have no sense of humor, or just you?
 
Quote    Reply

Brolan       7/23/2007 1:09:52 PM
If hand-to-hand fighting is more common, should we be looking into better melee weapons for the troops?  Larger knives?  Blades integrated in the weapons somehow?
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/23/2007 1:11:16 PM

The importance of combatives training is demonstrated on a pretty daily basis over in the big cat box, so I think the Marines have a good idea.

 
Adding their own in-house belt system, however, is about the gayest thing any military organization has done since some ancient Greek units actually required you to be gay to join.  Even those guys may think the USMC belts are gayer, hard to say.

The Army has a similar program except its called combatives and rather than belts you get "levels".
 
-DA
 
Quote    Reply

dirtykraut       7/23/2007 2:10:57 PM
It's only a matter of time before the US Marine Corps once again reaffirms that it is the most special organization on the planet, and tells everyone that not only are they not good enough to go through USMC boot camp, but they don't have those nifty green belts the 0311's will be getting.
 
Quote    Reply

andyf       7/23/2007 2:16:36 PM
If hand-to-hand fighting is more common, should we be looking into better melee weapons for the troops?  Larger knives?  Blades integrated in the weapons somehow?
 
would that be a bayonet?
 
Quote    Reply

Nomad32       7/23/2007 3:15:50 PM

would that be a bayonet?


Naw, a claymore (original 'heelund' model) and woad...
 
Quote    Reply

SOP919F3       7/23/2007 5:28:52 PM
Well, whatever they call it, close combat (unarmed) fighting is inevitable when you have door to door operations.  Guns jammed, out of  ammo, or as the article says where "civilians turn hostile" at a close proximity before one has a chance to arm up.  I'm just not sure Martial Arts is practical vs. "street" fighting techniques, which are more realistic and deadly.  The environment certainly won't be like training on a blue mat under bright lights.  But it's better than nothing I suppose.
 
Quote    Reply

trenchsol    which art   7/24/2007 8:52:38 AM
What kind of martial art is it going to be ? As a person who practiced martial arts (tae-kwon-do), I know that body armor and equipment constraints movement a lot. It has to be some kind of traditional martial art modified for combat troops. There are already some styles derived for special purposes from traditional Ju-Jutsu.  The opponent  might  have a body armor too,  so  punches and kicks to the body might not be effective, and style should  include throwing, locking, limb breaking and strangling techniques.

DG


 
Quote    Reply

Ehran       7/24/2007 1:10:53 PM

  I'm just not sure Martial Arts is practical vs. "street" fighting techniques, which are more realistic and deadly.  The environment certainly won't be like training on a blue mat under bright lights.  But it's better than nothing I suppose.
you have to figure the marines will stick to that which works and leave the sportsmanship to tournament fighters.
 
Quote    Reply

Horsesoldier       7/24/2007 2:43:36 PM
The USMC combatives appear to be very real world focused rather than a straightforward porting of some martial arts style, so I don't think applicability is an issue.  I just don't know what genius thought Asian martial arts-style belts were some sort of enhancer for the program.  Maybe in a few years they'll start handing out colored headbands instead of marksmanship badges, too . . .
 
Quote    Reply

Nichevo       7/24/2007 7:19:46 PM



  I'm just not sure Martial Arts is practical vs. "street" fighting techniques, which are more realistic and deadly.  The environment certainly won't be like training on a blue mat under bright lights.  But it's better than nothing I suppose.

you have to figure the marines will stick to that which works and leave the sportsmanship to tournament fighters.

NOW you trust the US military to do something right?!?

Seriously, if I recall, they have been struggling with this problem for some time.  Numerous arts and training schemes have been tried and discarded. 

On the bright side, serious commitment to martial arts training would probably improve the conditioning and reduce the "musclebound" look that Euros always sneer at.  I suppose in theory it could lead to a higher pass rate for SOF applicants.

Then again, there are other duties for a soldier, sailor, etc., than daily katas and meditation.  On a maximum-return-for-minimum-investment basis, what are anyone's thoughts on Krav Maga?

I also question whether they really mean "unarmed combat" or "no firearms."  In the latter case, the historic range of hand weapons, edged, blunt, etc., should be looked to.  But it may be there is no time to draw a weapon.  In which case...

Taser or taser-plus gloves?  Grab a foe with two fingers and zap his nads off?  Also I believe it silences the victim, which would seem to the point.  Of course this might not always be worn either...
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: 1 2 3   NEXT

StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2008StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy