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Subject: 6.5 Grendell vs 6.8 SPC controversary
Your Gunny    3/1/2007 12:51:19 AM
I have been testing both 6.5 Grendell and 6.8 SPC cartridges in both AR-15 and bolt action formats for more than a year. I have been benchrest shooting and reloading since 1963 and feel that I have a ligimate voice in this issue. First the availability of ammo and brass. Both are available from moe than two sources. That to me makes them viable candidates for military applications. I have built one rifle each on AR-15 actions and Remington Mod 700 actions. All four rifles delivered excellent results. However, the 6.5 Grendell versions displayed better groups at distances more than 300 yards. At 400 yards the 6.5 Grendell will group 1/2 the best group that the 6.8 SPC can perform. It appears that the 6.8 SPC is limited to distances of about 250 yards. The 6.5 Grendell is very accurate in both formats from 100 yards to 400 yards and further. I have many targets fired at 400 yards that are less than 1/2 MOA. Where as the best 400 yard target with the 6.8 SPC is less than 1 MOA. Test Data and target photos are available. Regards, Yer' Old Gunny
 
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Yimmy       7/5/2007 2:01:37 PM
Why the fad for 25mm grenades?

They lack the HE capacity of 40mm grenades in the UBGL role, while in the direct fire support role they lack the large beating zone of a 7.62mm GPMG, while they lack the long range flat trajectory of the .50 cal HMG.


 
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doggtag       7/5/2007 6:21:16 PM

Why the fad for 25mm grenades?

They lack the HE capacity of 40mm grenades in the UBGL role, while in the direct fire support role they lack the large beating zone of a 7.62mm GPMG, while they lack the long range flat trajectory of the .50 cal HMG.




Why the fad?
Because that's what the US Army dictated the OCSW Objective Crew Served Weapon was going to be.
Sure beats me why they didn't opt for improving on the 40mm versions.
My guess is they wanted something with a higher muzzle velocity that didn't rely on lobbing its shells to maximum ranges, wasn't as susceptible to high cross winds,
something that could incorporate a built-in fire control computer that could lase distances to targets and program a round to detonate near enough where intended yet not be so heavy and cumbersome between the gun and its ammo that it took 3+ men to carry it all around.
 
So in the end, this is what we (US Army) look to be getting, the XM307/XM312 convertible machine gun, adaptable to fire the 25mm grenades or 12.7mm bullets.
 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=U4_pnRM_UCI (Yes, it's a cheesy YouTube video, taken from that show Future Weapons)
 
 
 
...and anytime you see pics of the various FCS vehicles, they most often have the 307/312 in some manner of RWS/pintle mount up top acting as secondary weapon.
 
 
 
 
 
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Yimmy       7/5/2007 7:35:41 PM
Yeah I know about the OCSW.  It looks to me in the same way that the automatic 40mm grenade launchers look nice.  However it doesn't look like a replacement for UGL's, GPMG's or .50 cals to me.


 
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doggtag       7/5/2007 8:01:51 PM

  However it doesn't look like a replacement for UGL's, GPMG's or .50 cals to me.


I kind of agree there.
In some instances, weight of shot (lead or HE) downrange in a given time is what determines kill power.
The OCSW's 250 rpm as either 25mm or 50 cal almost pales in comparison to the Mk 19's 375 or so rpm, and the 50 cal's 450 or whatever rpm.
But I guess more people in the Army's procurement departments are towing the party line more to the fact that fewer but more precise (better aimed) rounds are better in enough situations rather than higher rates of fire which have a greater downrange dispersal pattern.
 
Does a few well-aimed fuzed 25mm rounds equate to greater anti personnel potential than a few 40mm grenades which scatter around the intended target?
Or do half a dozen 25mm High Explosive Armor Piercing rounds, better placed due to their flatter trajectories, give a better anti-armor (or anti materiel) perfomance than half a dozen 40mm HEDP grenades?
Does the 25mm have enough future growth potential (lethality improvements), or is its smallish caliber destined to make it more or less a one trick pony?
 
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Jeff_F_F    not wanting to hijack the 6.5 vs 6.8 thread   7/6/2007 4:52:11 PM
starting a grenade launcher thread
 
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