Best Infantry : The Viet Cong?

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Yimmy 11/3/2006 7:37:39 PM

GOP, it really is not a matter of the rest of us (ie non-Americans) being jealous of US airpower.

In the context of infantry, we are simply for the most part pointing out that US infantry has not been tested to the extent you seem to think they have been.

For instance, look at the regular arguments on the armour forum, where people always say "The French Leclerc is the most advanced and best MBT in the world", and others counter with "But they have not been tested in combat, and they may be good for France, but they can not be the best for everyone".

The American infantry may be the best infantry for America, at fighting how America fights (be the case perhaps one of find the enemy and then call in the airforce), however it is hard to say they are the best overall, or for everyone, as they simply have not been tested in set-piece infantry combat in the same way other nations infantry have been in recent years.

I am not saying any which way is better than another, nor am I saying British infantry have seen much more pure infantry engagements than American infantry, but you simply can not name, say Fallujah, as an infantry led operation.

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joe6pack 11/3/2006 10:54:42 PM

Well, I think modern warefare is going to rule out strictly infantry engagements, to a very large extent. No one is going to surrender an advantage just to see who's bayonet is bigger.

"In the context of infantry, we are simply for the most part pointing out that US infantry has not been tested to the extent you seem to think they have been."

That's probably true. Although on the rare occasions where they have, I think we've done pretty well even in circumstances that I wouldn't call wins

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dba 11/4/2006 4:20:04 AM

I would have to disagree. During the Vietnam war, Viet Cong and NVA were ordered by higherups NOT to engage South Korean troops (SK maintained 3 or so infantry divisions. 2 army and 1 marine) unless they were CERTAIN of victory 100%. This was ordered because Viet Cong and NVA were beaten up silly by SK troops in a series of encounters. I've read some of the war stories here link... I've also heard from more than 1 source that US troops were very impressed with how well SK troops performed. One US GI said 'I slept well at night when SK troops were in town'.

I'd say maybe Viet Cong were dedicated, obedient, and durable infantry. But not the best infantry ever. You are infantry to win battles and seems like SK troops deserve that title more than Viet Cong.

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Ehran 11/5/2006 4:04:55 AM

don't different countries run small scale exercises of infantry skills annually? if we looked at the results from several of these contests over say a decade or so we'd have some facts to go along with the opinions. i know the norwregians do an ex like that but that's arctic warfare and we probably shouldn't hold the american's placements too hard against them as it's not a skill set very many armies practice much.

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GOP 11/6/2006 12:27:15 AM

Yimmy, I came across sort of rude, sorry. I just don't understand the point in any of this. The US practices combined arms warfare....if it is most effective to bomb the crap out of the enemy, then we'll do it and win. Don't hold that against us. All we want to do is win, the untested foreign armies can claim all the style points in exercises. I wonder how Norway would do in the streets of Baghdad or in Kabul.

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DropBear 11/6/2006 1:22:31 AM

The modern US Army Infantry Soldier or US Marine is without question the best trained, best equipped, best supported, most educated, most experienced, most dedicated, most motivated and most effective infantry force the world has ever known PERIOD. There isnt a single force in the history of war that the Modern US Infantryman could not defeat on a battlefield.

Best trained. To do what exactly? Are eighteen year old G.I. Infantry better trained in field craft then a comparative Commonwealth soldier?

Best equipped. Comes from having the luxury of a large citizen taxpayer base of a couple of hundred million people. Hardly fair.

Best supported. With out all the support, would your basic infantry be better than say that of an Aussie Digger, one-on-one? Are American troops trained to fight without the luxury of heavy armour, artillery and helo support?

Most educated. Is there a mandatory requirement for all enlisted American soldiers to have a high school certificate (diploma) and every officer to be university educated prior to military academy work?

Most experienced. Are we talking about police actions that happen on a weekly basis or are we talking about the entire military history of your country?

Most dedicated. How is the dedication more than anyone else?

Most motivated. Most professional armies with good guidance and ideal pay/conditions are motivated. What makes the USA unique here?

Most effective. Are they any more effective than their contemporaries if they don't have the luxury of massive support to cover their backs?

Curious.

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Heorot GOP 11/6/2006 8:16:19 AM

The original question to which I was addressing was "best infantryman" NOT "best army" or "best combined tactics".

Those might be relevant in the real world of fighting wars, but are not the question. Pure infantry skills was the question; how good are they at fighting in situations where the artillery, armour and air support are not available? In my view, under those circumstances, I don't see the US as the having the best pure infantry; that's probably our antipodean friends.

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kensohaski 11/6/2006 8:33:21 AM

Indeed! The US produces the finest soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen on the planet. To even compare the VC to a regular western army ignores reality. The VC were never regulars...

There are a ton of good soldiers world wide. ROK, ROC, UK, France (gag), West Germany ( an old cold war term), Japan, Oz, and a myriad of others.

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DropBear 11/6/2006 9:25:59 AM

In my view, under those circumstances, I don't see the US as the having the best pure infantry; that's probably our antipodean friends.

Yep, can't beat an Aussie Digger for tenacity, courage, grit and that famous slouch hat!

Best light infantry with real world experience in desert/jungle warfare from Boer to GW2 and Afghanistan.

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joe6pack 11/6/2006 9:38:38 AM

In my view, under those circumstances, I don't see the US as the having the best pure infantry; that's probably our antipodean friends.

Yep, can't beat an Aussie Digger for tenacity, courage, grit and that famous slouch hat!

Best light infantry with real world experience in desert/jungle warfare from Boer to GW2 and Afghanistan.

I'd like to respond to some of the earlier comments but don't have the time right now. However, I'd say what makes the Aussie Diggers the best is their ability to aquire beer in any and all circumstance

Well, that and the hats are cool too. Who ever made the decision to move the US Army to a bunch of beret wearing (comments sensored) should be shot.

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