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Subject: The Civil War in Iraq
James Dunnigan    10/29/2003 10:44:06 PM

Most of the terrorist attacks in Iraq during the last week have been directed at Iraqis, not Americans. American bases are very well defended, so the terrorists are apparently going for more exposed targets, like police stations. But this shift in targets is also the start of another Middle Eastern civil war. Lebanon was torn apart by civil war from 1975 to 1990. Only exhaustion and a sense of futility stopped the fighting between Lebanese Christians and several different Islamic sects. Yemen was torn by civil war through most of the 1960s and Algeria is still smoldering after a decade of civil strife. Sudan's civil war is well into its second decade. You want terrorism? Then come to the Middle East. Jordan has had bouts of Palestinian and Islamic radical violence. Syria also has had run ins with Islamic fundamentalists, but put them down with great brutality. Syrian fundamentalists have either fled, or kept their heads down when at home.

But the current terrorist bombing campaign looks familiar. When the Egyptian Moslem Brotherhood used similar bombing tactics during the late 1980s and early 1990s, so many civilians were killed that the Brotherhood lost a lot of their popular support. The Brotherhood was fighting to establish an Islamic republic and, more importantly, eliminate the very unpopular government corruption. But the civilian deaths led to more civilians cooperating with the government, and most of the Brotherhood activists were soon arrested or on the run. By the mid 1990s, the Moslem Brotherhood, at least the militant wing, was destroyed in Egypt, with many of those not arrested having fled overseas to join Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda organization.

Iraq, however, is s slightly different situation. The resistance in Iraq is led by Sunni Arabs (led by the Baath Party) who want to regain control of the country. Working with this group are Islamic radicals (al Qaeda and local religious zealots), who would normally be fighting the Baath Party. Al Qaeda wants to see an Islamic republic in Iraq, something few Iraqis care for. Thus the main resistance in Iraq has an ethnic minority (the 20 percent of the population that is Sunni Arab) as a base of support. While popular revulsion to terrorist attacks may lead to al Qaeda activists (who are nearly all non-Iraqis and easy to spot) being driven out, the Sunni Arabs don't plan on going anywhere.

What's developing is a civil war, similar to what went on in Lebanon from 1975-90. There, Islamic radicals (mostly Shias) were the first Middle Eastern users of suicide bombers. These attacks were mainly against their political enemies (mostly Arab Christians, but also Sunni and Druze Arabs.) The civil war in Iraq will probably be more vicious than the one in Lebanon, where the main grievance was over how much national power each religious faction should have. In Iraq, the Sunni Arabs want it all, and for centuries have maintained their power over the Shia Arab and Kurd majority with savage repressions. Until 1918, the Sunnis did the dirty work in the name of their Turkish overlords. But for the past seventy years, the Sunni Arabs have become increasingly brutal, as their victims frequently resisted. But the last few decades of Sunni Arab rule were particularly nasty, and the Shia and Kurds will not be gentle in dealing with Sunni Arab violence. In some Sunni Arab areas, the locals are becoming aware that American troops are actually protecting them from the wrath of Shias and Kurds seeking vengeance.

But the Americans will be withdrawing as soon as there has been a democratic election. This will establish a government run by Shia Arabs and Kurds. Many Sunni Arabs are willing to fight to the death to prevent this from happening. And their foe in this war is not foreigners, but the Shia and Kurd policemen who are restoring order in the country.

While the Sunni Arabs are outnumbered four to one, they have a disproportionate share of the trained military manpower and cash. Sunni Arabs have long controlled the military and commerce in the area. Government and academic jobs have also been disproportionately Sunni Arab. Quality has a quantity all its own, and the Sunni Arabs have never let being outnumbered keep them from power.

Iraq's neighbors are well aware of the Sunni Arab problem, and longed counseled tolerance for Saddam, or his successor, as they believed that democracy in Iraq would just lead to a bloody civil war. Middle Eastern nations have long settled political disputes on the battlefield, and have little experience with using a ballot box instead. Most people in the region do not see the Sunni Arabs of Iraq meekly accepting their minority status. It's also felt that that Shia Arabs and Kurds will not treat the Sunni Arabs gently, or fairly. While most Americans are unfamiliar with the hatred most Iraqis feel for Sunni Arabs, these strong emotions play a major role in Iraqi politics. The Lebanese civil war was no surprise to anyone familiar with the long term religious tensions in that country. Similar antagonisms exist in Iraq, and have for a long time. The coalition has put the Shia and Kurds in a position to run the place, and the first order of business will be to make sure the Sunni Arabs don't bully their way to power again. It's not a question of what the Sunni Arabs will do about it, they are already acting. The Sunni Arabs have started the Iraqi Civil War, and when American troops withdraw, it will be Iraqi Shias and Kurds who will finish it, one way or another.

 
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gf0012-aust    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   11/29/2003 9:50:25 PM
Interesting. Robert Baer makes the point that the Kurds and Shia made it clear to him that democracy would only work on paper. At the end of the day they will deal with all of their major problems at the tribal level. Considering that a lot of what he has revealed about his days as a CIA op in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Mid East in general, it would make sense for the executive to heed his counsel. Turkey and Iran will not be too keen on democracy destryoing their respective advantages. Considering that the Kurds have absolutely no trust in the US after being dumped by Bush Snr, the US will have a hard time bringing things to completion.
 
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Clausewitz    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/2/2003 8:40:09 AM
After the US will have left Iraque Sunni Muslims will not have the tools to wage civil war. Even with Saddam in power they did'nt control the kurdish northern country. And they needed all the might of the Republican Guards to win against the shias in 1991. And the shias will maybe backed by Iran. The new Iraqui army/police will be trained and equipped by the US. Therefore the sunni minority will not prevail. But sunni islamic radicals in battle with shia islamic radicals bring us a tiny little nearer to victory against terrorism (hopefully).
 
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ruido blanco    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/2/2003 12:43:05 PM
Greetings... Iraq, being homeland to different tribes, might as well dissappear as a country, just as Yugoslavia broke up or as Afghanistan could. The boundaries of this countries were mostly created by European nations, just as it happened in Africa, relying in political or administrative judgements and ignoring the nature of the subjects living on the land. Conflicts were sure to arise in both parts of the world, and so they did. Perhaps its for the better that smaller states with a more or less homogeneous population (and I'm not talking about ethnic cleansing, Yugoslav or Rwandan-style) may form in a stable political enviroment. Of course this is ideal - or idyllic - and now impossible, due to the direct interference of Western nations in the Middle East, which try hard to free the pupulation, save the world, bring democracy... and take control of their natural resources in the process: is a dirty job - as the saying goes- but somebody has to do it. Perhaps after the oil rans out, there will be nothing left but a number of tribes chasing each other in the drylands of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and part of the former Soviet Republics, and they'll be left alone to decide their future in their own methods, democratic or not, and that's better. Greetings from MX, rb
 
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bsl    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/2/2003 7:50:44 PM
1)Re:"Taking control of natural resources" One of the most common charges made against America and one of the most easily refuted. The Arabs, Iranians, etc. nationalized their oil industry more than 30 years ago. In the process, they broke contracts with and confiscated assets from companies throughout America and Europe. If anyone was going to "take control" of ME oil, it would have happened, then. It didn't. In fact, the policy of the whole Western world has been to recognize local control of resources and deal with locals on a commericial basis. This has been true all the way to the present. This line of criticism isn't just wrong; it's silly since the facts are so clearly and consistently opposite of the claims. 2)Even after the breakup of the Former Yugoslavia and the USSR, there are few issues where more countries agree than in opposing the break up of any countries, for any reasons. In the two cited examples, the break up came from internal pressure, in one case including extensive wars. As far as Iraq is concerned, there are a LOT of countries, including the regional countries, as well as virtually the entire West, which oppose Iraq breaking up with a desperate fervor. As long as America is in Iraq in force, there will be no breakup. If America leaves, and the country begins to separate, there is a strong possibility almost every neighbor will be strongly tempted to intervene, by force. The sides may be drawn in different ways, but, basically, the Turks fear any independent Kurdish state, anywhere. The Syrians, Arabians, and Iranian mullahs fear anything which looks as if it might be genuine democracy, because of the implications for their own forms of rule. The neighboring Arabs feel some level of national sympatico with the Sunni Arabs of Saddam's basis of power. The Iranians probably feel some sympatico with the Shi'a Arabs of the south of Iraq, who constitute a majority of the total Iraqi population. The Kurds of Turkey, whose "fighters" have tended not to be aligned with the Kurdish groups in Iraq, might support the Iraqi Kurds on the theory that any Kurdish success, anywhere, in establishing an independent state must rebound, eventually, to help the cause of Kurdish independence from Turkey. The Sunni Arab center was the traditional center of power, since the creation of Iraq, after WW1. From then, to the moment American troops moved in, this group tended to dominate the instruments of power, to the extent they existed in Iraqi hands. The American defeat of Saddam's field armies, however, broke that chain of control. At present, the Sunni Arabs have very limited possession of arms. If America were to just leave, without doing anything else, and no outside power moved in, then the Sunni would face two angry groups, the Kurds, who may outnumber them, and the Shi'a, who are at least twice their numbers (maybe more), without dominating a military establishment to use to suppress these groups. Plus, the oil and gas are in the Kurdish and the Shi'a areas. The Sunni heartland is, basically, some river frontage and a lot of desert. A Shi'a state, in the south might be viable, with large oil reserves and an outlet to the sea, plus a potentially friendly Iran on it's eastern border. The Kurds, however, even with oil, would need at least one neighbor to be friendly, otherwise, they could be totally isolated. The Sunni Arab center doesn't seem to constitute a viable state, on it's own, however. The potential for some sort of anschluss with Syria seems present.
 
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Worcester    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/4/2003 7:11:08 PM
Didn't we cover this on the "How to win a guerilla war?" board. Conclusions first: (1) if guerilla support is marginal and population tolerate military action for a better future, you can win; (2) if its someone elses civil war, get the UN in and get the hell out. It may be the latter, which is no big deal, but... (a) Just because they hit police stations doesn't make it a civil war - could be a classic terrorist campaign in stage (2): (1)"govt can't protect you"; (2) "government can't even protect themselves"; (3) "want to talk?" In stage (2), all government workers are "legitimate targets" in terror speak - drives a big wedge. (b) Until we hear about resistance movements (plural) we cannot say it's a civil war - unless you believe ALL of them against us counts! Perhaps too obvious to watch the shia/Iranians for a second front since they stand to win most next June. (c) No-one but the shia have any interest in democracy. (d)Motives: There's nothing wrong with fighting for oil and making sure we get the major share. (e) On the outcome: There's nothing wrong with partition - a traditonal diplomatic solution which created Kuwait; would be clever to repeat it with another small, oil-rich area. But even if they insist on fighting among themselves, it keeps them busy. It doesn't matter whether there is civil war or deliberate partition...the worst case scenario is to hang around pushing some lame idea which no-one wants - it can't be imposed by force. So, it's option (2), get the UN in and get the hell out... But of course, we must have those all-important elections first. Then we can say "we gave them democracy but the UN fouled it up!" - we win all round! (As a small P.S. - Yugoslavia broke beyond redemption when Germany recognized Slovakia (traditional Catholic (cetnik) ally) and pressured EU to confirm. Up till then it might have been fixed.)
 
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bsl    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/4/2003 8:02:05 PM
Worcester, 1)Democracy - As far as I know - which isn't much, to be sure - the Iraqi Kurds have established a fairly efficient, reasonably honest governance in their region, beginning not with the Anglo-American invasion, but with the "No Fly" Zone declarations back in Gulf War I (Enter the Jedi). 2)We may, perhaps, be seeing in Iraq a fairly unusual permutation of unconventional warfare playing out. I can't recall, offhand, another instance where there was a major guerilla campaign against a major power limited to a very narrow segment of the country in question, as in Iraq. The Kurds are natural allies of the liberators, and the Shi'a, so far, seem to have considered us functional allies against the Sunni. As long as this basic division continues (even neglecting the Chaldeans and Turkomen), it's difficult to see how the Sunni can achieve a battlefield victory. Okay, guerilla campaigns are traditionally politically directed, more than other types of fighting, and the message of the Bad Guys is dominating a lot of Western media. Still, they're taking what seem to be fairly substantial losses and working on limited, stored capital from the Saddam years (both money and munitions) and this has to start running short. The outside help may be a wild card, but I don't see a victory for the Sunni, with or without Saddam, on their own. The American ace-in-the-hole is to threaten to leave after arming the Kurds and Shi'a, which puts the Sunni in a pretty bad situation, badly outnumbered, lacking their traditional control of a central military and police establishment, facing local enemies who really are out for their blood. 3)Nevertheless, "There's nothing wrong with partition" flies in the face of the entire postWW2 international system. I don't have a problem with this approach. Most of the rest of the world, including virtually all it's governments and international bureaucracies are bitterly opposed to any such thing. It's not impossible, but it would shake the international system to it's core. I strongly suspect that not only would there be general opposition in the sorts of places Europeans seem to care about - the UN, the EU, etc. - but that the neighboring countries would all be strongly tempted to intervene rather than allow Iraq to split. This last is a tricky calculation, as neighbors might want to grab pieces as much as they might want to keep Iraq together. In broad overview, however, I rather suspect that an Anglo-American withdrawal which leaves an unstable Iraq behind is likely to lead, in fairly short order, to a regionalization of the internal affairs of Iraq, and in a way most would find dangerous and destablizing.
 
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Worcester    RE:The Civil War in Iraq-bsl   12/5/2003 2:07:41 PM
1. Partition has been one of the most common forms of conflict resolution - even as an accidental outcome of civil war, it is often the best outcome because if they fight each other, they don't have the ability to fight us. (e.g. Cyprus, Ireland, India/Pakistan, etc.) and the longer it lasts, the more it becomes the permanent solution. 2. The UN exists for three purposes - as the accepted forum for the expression of international hatred; to make poor countries feel important; and to provide an acceptable confirmation of existing conflict lines. Only the UN members most closely involved will be interested in Iraq - not it's people, but its neighbors. The neighbors have little interest in a democratic or even a strong Iraq - their base position will be: if you can't control it, Balkanize it. Iran, Syria et als all facing each other across a divided Iraq; that'll keep them busy. 3. If we arrange this well, they will squabble among each other for a long time (just like the Iran/Iraq war) and finish exhausted. We may be able to create another "Kuwait" from the oil fields, but I'm not sure we're that clever. 4. The exit strategy: watch for those ubiquitous EU election monitors to appear in May 2004 and a step-up of UN involvement. They just don't get it. 5. And just in time for the 2004 elections! Go W! Only catch is the Brits insistence on linking Iraq with the Palestinian settlement - may not be a prob since Blair will resign between Feb-May 2005 and Brown (his prob successor) ain't got that influence with W. BUT it will still sour our relations with the EU esp when they're left holding more of the bag; expect more EU pressure to move the "Road Map" forward from 2005 onwards. P.S. I assume the Administration is not dumb enough to actually believe the whole "American Century" crusade crap - or else we're really in up to our necks.
 
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bsl    RE:The Civil War in Iraq-bsl   12/5/2003 9:00:27 PM
Worcester, -Partitions HAS been common, in world history. Things changed after WW2. Basically, once you get sovereign nations, UN members, the very heavy presumption in the international system is that they are permanent features of the Cosmos. We're not talking about what happens when the colonial empires pull out. But, what happens after the formation war ends. There HAVE been a few exceptions in the world over the last 60 years. Vietnam, although many argue that this was actually a finishing of the colonial era rather than a modern entry. Hmmmm... Tibet and...one of the Himalyan ministate...Sikkim?... annexed by China and India, respectively. Apart from that, we have the breakup of the USSR and of the Former Yugoslavia. In each case, the international system more or less took for granted the benefit of breakup. In the case of Iraq, however, I think virtually the whole Arab world will be terrified of the implications of Iraq breaking up and bitterly oppose it. If Iraq can disintegrate, so can most Arab countries (and Iran). This is what has tended to make almost all of Africa, plus most of Asia oppose ANY changes in international borders in the modern era. Almost all are ramshackle countries, usually composed of multiple ethnic groups are well as arbitrary boundaries and all fear that a wave of change in the world would hit them, hard. OTOH, if no western country was ready to put it's army where it's diplomats' mouths were, local dynamics would trump mere politics. Armies generally trump diplomats when the diplomats don't have armies backing them up. -Whatever else our interests are, I dispute that the West has an interest in throwing the Kurds to the wolves. (OTOH, it's been done on more than one occasion in the past.) What may be more important, the perception of such a policy in the Islamic world would play RIGHT into the hands, and ideology, of OBL and al Qaeda and could easily strengthen the jihadists across the Islamic world. Their argument, after all, is that the infidels have tried and are trying to keep them weak, divided, and fighting each other.
 
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Man of the Right    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/6/2003 12:06:50 PM
Regarding your second point. Narrowly based guerrillas are very common in history. In Malaya, a minority (the communists) within a minority (the Chinese) waged a guerrilla against the British and majority Malays in 1948-57 -- and lost. In our own history, renegade Apaches waged a war against both anglos and reservation Apaches in the 1880s -- and lost. The Army won the war when they started employing Apache scouts to run Geronimo's band to ground.
 
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bsl    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/6/2003 8:11:54 PM
"In Malaya, a minority (the communists) within a minority (the Chinese" Minority from the ethnic point of view. Communism claims to be a universalist movement. It's the secular equivalent of a religion, reaching across national lines. IOW, where there is a communist insurgency, it generally tries to appeal across national lines. That's not always true, and even where true, nationalist elements may predominate. But, it's a defining quality. Communism, in this sense, was a secular equivalent of Islam, in recent years, and the traditional appeal of Christianity (although in more than one flavor). To the extent resistance in Iraq is religiously based, jihadism, a la al-Qaeda, there is a similar attempt to appeal across narrow ethnic and tribal lines, to Islam (Sunni Islam, anyway) generally. However, to the extent that the resistance is bases on Ba'athist remnants, or on Syrian pushes, and combinations of such elements, it's a much more narrowly focused movement. In any event, as far as the dynamics INSIDE Iraq go, it seems difficult to gain the Sunni Arabs much help from either the Kurds or the Shi'a. There's been too much blood under the bridge, as well as the fact that the Jihadists we hear about are Sunni, and tend to be bitter enemies of Shi'a generally, for doctrinal reasons. There are some organized Kurdish groups who might, conceivably, be tempted to align with the Sunni Arabs if they thought America was leaving. A few who collaborated with the Ba'ath, plus some who operate in Turkey, as opposed to Iraq. But, it would be tough for these to work in the Kurdish region of Iraq. The collaborators are known and are trying to stay alive right now, with the bulk of the Kurds out for revenge on their oppressors from Saddam's years. And, the Turkish Kurdish groups lack permanent ties to Iraqi Kurdistan. Indeed, if they were ever to appear in significant numbers, they might very well lead Turkey to help the Iraqi Kurds on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" theory. And, of all the regional Islamic powers, Turkey is the most powerful. An alliance between Turkey and Iraqi Kurdistan would pretty well guarantee that this part of Iraq would remain out of the Sunni Arab sphere. This is tricky ground. Given the Turkish feelings about any independent Kurdish state, anywhere, the natural tendency might be for Turkey to work *against* the Iraqi Kurds, postUS occupation. Seeing Turkish Kurds aligned with the Sunni Arabs is the most obvious reason reason for them to rethink this and, thus, a pretty stupid idea as far as the Sunni Arabs are concerned.
 
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Worcester    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/8/2003 2:41:55 PM
The boys (and girls) will come home by Christmas 2004! Domestic politics win again, and so do we! Whoe else then will hold Iraq together...no-one; the whole mess becomes internationalized. And the War against Terror? For one day, the middle east intruded on our lives; W had to make a gesture somewhere and we did. Without addressing the root causes it will linger on but eventually it will become as significant in our lexicon as the War against Drugs, etc. etc.
 
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bsl    RE:The Civil War in Iraq   12/8/2003 2:57:55 PM
"the whole mess becomes internationalized" As opposed to the non-internationalized last more-than-ten years, taking in the conquest of Kuwait, the first Gulf War, the whole international embargo, including on-going military patrols if both the Persian Gulf and Iraqi airspace? To say nothing of the risk of proliferation of Iraqi WMD. Gotta watch out for that risk of future "internationalization" of Iraq. It's gonna be a doozy.
 
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