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Subject: Intel 286 chips for F22
Vulture    10/24/2002 9:45:29 AM
The Pentagon is subsidizing manufacture of outdated chips.
They only have to go to Ebay and suchlike to RECYCLE all those old motherboards that people have.
 
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jimbeam    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   10/24/2002 11:30:59 PM
Why are they using such old tech? Don't understand.
 
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jimbeam    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   10/24/2002 11:32:47 PM
By the way, they probably are subsidizing it because they might not be able to find enough chips for 300 plus fighters. Also, someones friend is making the big bucks off this.
 
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macawman    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   10/27/2002 1:31:47 AM
The Space Shuttle uses the same chips but with triple redundancy at military specifications. For a simple function these heat and vibration resistant enhanced chips are reliable.
 
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Matt Smith-Iwilltry    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22~~ Tomorrow   10/27/2002 5:22:23 AM
Are there US Mil specs for Pentiums, redundant or not?
 
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macawman    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   10/27/2002 9:07:53 PM
TI was doing Mil Spec development for the government in the 80's on the 286 type chip. I do not know if the Intel Corp has a Mil Spec Pentium contract.
 
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giblets    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   1/7/2003 6:14:25 AM
Would a mil spec chip not just be a downgraded afaster chip? The faster the hotter, the less reliable. These days all the Pentiums and suchlike are the same chips. They test them,a nd the tighter tolerences are downgraded, hence why they are clocked. No idea if this relates to military spec or not though, any ideas?
 
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macawman    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   1/9/2003 10:19:31 PM
A microchip that has a "military specication" requirement has higher heat,cold, and vibration tolerences than a comericial "off the shelf" one.
 
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jlb    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   1/13/2003 6:45:18 PM
I guess it's more like the design was frozen with the 286, it works just like that and nobody wants to mess with it as long as it works OK. A pentium is much larger than a 286 and the instruction set is different too, so a lot of software would have to be rewritten and the black boxes redesigned, and what for? the joy of having more MHz in them? Furthermore, a 286 doesn't need cooling to work in normal conditions, a definite plus for military applications.
 
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prosen    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   1/30/2003 9:23:00 AM
"These days all the Pentiums and suchlike are the same chips." Not true. There can be significant variations in design and instruction sets within a given processor type. To date there have been four different cores four the pentium 4. There are additional descrepencies, as availability of memory often leads to variations in the type, and speed of cache put into a processor. The variations are sufficient such that certain plants and production runs create wildly different, and easily discernable processors, all within the same chip type.
 
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phillipdavidson    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   3/9/2003 6:18:50 AM
First of all, the F22 should not have won the competion. Its competitor for our next air superiority fighter was stealthier, faster, better armed, had better range, etc. and was CHEAPER compared to the most expensive fighter in history: The F22. Secondly, if I were president, I would make an executive order demanding that all processors used had at least 1 gigahertz.
 
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fred79    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   3/20/2003 9:55:20 PM
why. if you don't need to process that much information why would you spend good muney to produce special chips for no good reason. if a proven design like a 286 does all the processing power you need then why would you upgrade. don't forgett teh biggest need for fsater and faster chip sets is not because of the need to process more information than teh 286 did but to handle teh amazing ineffeicentcies of the modern GUI operating system. when your not creating a nice display you don't need that much processing power.
 
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neye_eve    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   3/23/2003 10:38:48 PM
No need to use a power-hungry and less-proven chip if an older, completely mature chip will do. That having been said, there was the rather unfortunate event of the Navy ship going dead-in-the-water, so to speak. That was running a version of NT or Win2k. If the former is the case, it would be needing at least a 385. If the latter is the case (win2k), it would require at least a pentium (class) chip.
 
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fred79    RE:Intel 286 chips for F22   3/24/2003 11:50:56 AM
i can only say that if the US navy is using windows based operating systems to run ship systems we are all in big frickin trouble. windows even the server based programs are so ineffecient compared to a directly designe system that it could make a huge difference in processing speed and crash prevention. not many people have ever in thier life seen DOS crash and it is even less likely that a completely mature self written system would fail and more than DOS. also useing windows based operating systems would result in the need for much more and more expesive computer equiptment.
 
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neye_eve    here's the link (re: Navy Ship running windows)   3/24/2003 3:08:10 PM
Yeah, you'd think they'd use a real-time OS like those found in satelites or pacemakers. I have no idea how things have changed in the last 4.5 years, but here's the link about the dead-in-the-water ship due to a windows NT glitch. link here's a quote from it: "Navy brass have called the Yorktown Smart Ship pilot a success in reducing manpower, maintenance and costs. The Navy began running shipboard applications under Microsoft Windows NT so that fewer sailors would be needed to control key ship functions. But the Navy last fall learned a difficult lesson about automation: The very information technology on which the ships depend also makes them vulnerable. The Yorktown last September suffered a systems failure when bad data was fed into its computers during maneuvers off the coast of Cape Charles, Va. The ship had to be towed into the Naval base at Norfolk, Va., because a database overflow caused its propulsion system to fail, according to Anthony DiGiorgio, a civilian engineer with the Atlantic Fleet Technical Support Center in Norfolk." (end quote - However, IIRC, this was caused by, of all things - a simple division by zero error! - I don't have a source on that one)
 
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foobar67    RE:here's the link (re: Navy Ship running windows)   10/20/2003 3:50:53 PM
I'm pretty sure that they're running some kind of 386 CPU's. They're available with extended temp ranges. ftp://download.intel.com/design/shared/embedded_linecards.pdf You start with a reliable CPU and design your systems accordingly. Imagine all the retesting and documentation costs associated with a cpu upgrade. That would really cost billions, not to mention all the excessive heat generated by modern cpu's. Plus nobody would imagine to install an OS into a 386 system that would require Ctrl-Alt-Del ;) foobar67
 
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