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Surface Forces: Der Kommando Kreuzer
   Next Article → STRATEGIC WEAPONS: Built To last

October 24, 2008: While Germany has been hesitant about getting involved in any combat in Afghanistan, they are making long range plans for foreign adventures. This comes in the form of four 7,200 ton warships that, in addition to the usual guns and missiles, carry fifty commandos. These F125 class frigates (they are actually the size of destroyers, but Europeans prefer to avoid such a violence laden word) will cost about $900 million each and the first one won't be delivered for six years.

Maybe the Germans will get their military mojo back by then, because these ships are designed to go half way around the world and make trouble. The 478 foot long ships have a crew of 120 (not counting the commandos) and are armed with eight Harpoon anti-ship missiles, two RAM launchers (with 21 missiles each) for anti-missile and anti-aircraft work, one 127mm cannon, two 27mm remotely controlled autocannon, seven 12.7mm machine-guns (five remotely controlled), and two water cannon. There are also two NH-90 helicopters and four 36 foot long, high speed (47 kilometers an hour) boats for the commandos (who also get dibs on the helicopters) and one or two UUVs (unmanned underwater vehicles) for clearing mines. There's also space for two 20 foot shipping containers, containing any special equipment. Electronics includes a phased array air search radar (as on Aegis ships) and the usual complement of commo and countermeasures stuff.

The F125s are designed to stay at sea for up to two years (with a crew switch, using a concept pioneered by the Americans, every six months or so). The ship isn't fast, with a top speed of 50 kilometers an hour. It can travel 7,200 kilometers without refueling. With these four frigates, Germany returns to the high seas.

Next Article → STRATEGIC WEAPONS: Built To last
  

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jak267       10/24/2008 4:51:46 PM
If they were smart, they'd build a modern pocket battleship. No one has anything able to confront something like that.
 
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ambush       10/24/2008 9:41:43 PM

If they were smart, they'd build a modern pocket battleship. No one has anything able to confront something like that.



A lot of folks do:
 
 
http://images.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jfs/collins_p1.jpg" width="315" border="0" />
 
 
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tactics/Carrier.jpg" width="639" border="0" />
 
 
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chsw       10/25/2008 7:02:41 PM
These frigates sound like anti-piracy vessels, perfect for staying on station off of Somalia or Malaya. 
 
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doggtag    anybody got a good source for pics, schematics, etc?   10/25/2008 8:51:23 PM
...Tried looking at the more dependable sites I've found this stuff before: Nav-Weaps, Naval-Technology, even tried Tank-Net.
 
Doesn't seem to be much out yet in the public domain about what it looks like (base designed borrowed from a previous ship, or new altogether?), just more forum dicussion about what it can do and could be good for.
 
 
 
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cwDeici       10/26/2008 9:06:21 AM
Air power is too far ahead, these cruisers will mostly be useful for peacetime and low to moderate-intensity warfare.
Intense combat and surviveability in the naval sphere will continue to be pushed underwater until something can deal almost perfectly with the nuke, even AEGIS protected carrier convoys aren't completely safe.
 
That said I don't know much about ships, but it seems to be the general lay lines.
 
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doggtag       10/26/2008 11:16:37 AM


Intense combat and surviveability in the naval sphere will continue to be pushed underwater until something can deal almost perfectly with the nuke, even AEGIS protected carrier convoys aren't completely safe.
...And who exactly do you really think could get away with lobbing a nuke at a USN carrier task force,
 and not face drastic consequences if it gets thru the defensive screen and actually sinks half a dozen ships and kills several thousand US sailors and Marines, and possibly some foreign participants?
 
Even your mighty beloved china isn't going to take that risk, not when they have too much at stake to lose themselves.
For instance, the USN has a dozen carriers at its disposal, each with the capacity to hold over 6 dozen stand-off-PGM-equipped aircraft;
china is still trying to stand up its first ocean-capable carrier, a far greater loss to china's pride when it gets sunk, than the US losing one of hers.
 
We're in the process of fielding 4 SSGNs (modified from Ohio-class SSBNs),
each with the capability to carry 154 long range Tomahawk missiles...which can carry a tactical nuclear warhead in excess of 2000km.
 
Be sure Russia fully backs you before you (china) try something that stupid (nuclear strike at USN carrier group).
Even Putin isn't such an idiot to risk getting into a nuclear exchange with the US, which could potentially include her British ally also, not to mention the scores of economic repercussions from numerous other nations who aren't going to be happy if they have to absorb any of the radioactive fallout...
 
The Aegis-protected carrier groups are a lot safer than you might realize: just because they may not be fully immune to ballistic missile attacks or submarines,
that doesn't mean that the retaliatory options in the US arsenal aren't deterrent enough to prevent it from happening in the first place.
How much of your own face and body are you willing to lose solely to bloody the nose of the opponent you're most jealous of?
Provoke a nest of bees, and it's your own fault when you get stung.
 
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flyingarty    Lob a nuke at the USN   10/27/2008 2:28:09 PM
nor would the Navy be the only branch of the US armed forces to exact terrible retaliation. You lob a nuke at the US carrier, the B-2's scramble, and you are f***ed!
 
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HERALD1357       10/28/2008 3:49:54 AM

Air power is too far ahead, these cruisers will mostly be useful for peacetime and low to moderate-intensity warfare.

Intense combat and surviveability in the naval sphere will continue to be pushed underwater until something can deal almost perfectly with the nuke, even AEGIS protected carrier convoys aren't completely safe.

 

That said I don't know much about ships, but it seems to be the general lay lines.

Spoken like a true amateur.
 
I hope your military is as misinformed  as you are.
 
Herald

 
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beersheba       10/28/2008 8:59:42 PM
And cwDeici has copped several heavy hits and is now, deservedly so, eating canvas.
 
Just looking at the specs for the class, these ships are listed at 7200 tons. I would want to be able to carry more than 50 commandos. Strewth, I'd want at least several coy plus add ons to be packed away for a rainy day.
 
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Nasty German Idiot       11/1/2008 11:45:42 AM
These are not the only ships that the Marine will get, there is a Helicopter carrier planned,  and new Korvettes K-130 are entering service. (5 already build, 2 in service, 6 more to come) 
 
 http://www.marine.de/portal/PA_1_0_P3/PortalFiles/02DB070000000001/W275X9U3134INFODE/K130+Braunschweig+Luft09_640.jpg?yw_repository=youatweb" />
K-130 (Braunschweig, the first that entered service in 2008.)
 
http://www.marine.de/portal/PA_1_0_P3/PortalFiles/02DB070000000001/W274DDR8280INFODE/F125+Standard+Bild.640.jpg?yw_repository=youatweb" width="640" height="375" /> 
 F-125
 
 I once had a pretty concept plan of the Helicopter Carrier but cant find it right now. 
 
 
 

 
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