NEW: Follow the Editorial Staff on
StrategyPage Twitter Link


GROUND COMBAT +

AIR COMBAT +

NAVAL OPERATIONS +

SPECIAL OPERATIONS +

HUMAN FACTORS +

SPECIAL WEAPONS +

WARFARE BY THE NUMBERS +

LOGISTICS +

TOOLS +


Visit StrategyPage's US Cavalry Store



Submarines Article Index : Current 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

Israeli Dolphins Rule The Waves

October 2, 2009: Three years after it signed a deal with Germany, Israel has received two more German built Dolphin class submarines. Israel already had three Dolphins, which they received 8-9 years ago. These have since been upgraded to include larger fuel capacity, converting more torpedo tubes to the larger 650mm size, and installing new electronics. The fuel and torpedo tube mods appear to have something to do with stationing the subs off the coast of Iran. Larger torpedo tubes allow the subs to carry longer range missiles. The larger fuel capacity makes it easier to move Dolphins from the Mediterranean to the Indian ocean. Although Israel has a naval base on the Red Sea, Egypt had, until recently, had not allowed Israeli subs to use the Suez canal. So the Dolphins were modified to go around Africa, if they had to.

Larger fuel capacity also allows the subs to spend more time on station off the Iranian coast. Currently the Dolphins can stay at sea for about 40 days (moving at about 14 kilometers an hour, on the surface, for up to 8,000 kilometers). Larger fuel capacity extends range to over 10,000 kilometers, and endurance to about 50 days.

The two new Dolphins cost about $650 million each, with Germany picking up a third of the coast, as part of their reparations for World War II atrocities against Jews. The Dolphins have a fuel cell based propulsion system which enable them to stay under waters for over a week at a time. The Dolphins are also very quiet, and very difficult for the Iranians to hunt down and destroy. The first three Dolphins didn't have the AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) system.

Israel equipped it's new Dolphin class submarines with nuclear cruise missiles in 2002. Israel also fitted their 135 kilometer range Harpoon missiles with nuclear warheads. These missiles are fired from the subs torpedo tubes. The 1,625 ton Dolphins can carry 16 torpedoes or missiles and have ten forward torpedo tubes (four of them the larger 650mm -26 inch- size). The Dolphins are considered the most modern non-nuclear subs in the world. The first three cost $320 million each. All have a crew of 35 and can dive to a depth of more than 600 feet. The Dolphin design is based on the German 209 class subs, but has been so heavily modified that it is considered a different class.

The Israelis have developed a cruise missile, which is has a range of 1,500 kilometers and carries a 200 kiloton nuclear warhead. The objective of deploying nukes on subs is to further enhance deterrence to any nation launching a nuclear strike against Israel. If one of the Dolphins are always at sea, even a first strike against Israel would not prevent a nuclear strike by submarine launched nukes. Israel is reported to be trying to set up a base in the Red Sea, because the most likely nuclear attackers are Iran.

submit to reddit
Send Link to a Friend
Next Article WEAPONS: China's Phalanx


Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Pages: 1 2
warpig       10/2/2009 11:57:35 AM
..except that now Israel is denying they have received them yet.
 
Quote    Reply

davod    Nuclear Cruise Missiles   10/2/2009 10:30:20 PM
"Israel equipped it's new Dolphin class submarines with nuclear cruise missiles in 2002."  I thought the Israelis do not openly acknowledge a nuclear deterrant.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

mabie       10/2/2009 11:26:12 PM

All the Israeli government and military spokesmen that I've seen interviewed on TV have neither confirmed or denied thet Israel possessed nuclear weapons so this report  seems  bit fishy to me.

I wonder if Israel had considered resupplying its subs in the Indian Ocean instead of having them make the long trip home. 

 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       10/3/2009 12:20:58 AM

I wonder if Israel had considered resupplying its subs in the Indian Ocean instead of having them make the long trip home. 


they already do
 
Quote    Reply

mabie       10/3/2009 6:58:11 AM




I wonder if Israel had considered resupplying its subs in the Indian Ocean instead of having them make the long trip home. 





they already do
Thanks.. good to know.


 
Quote    Reply

LB    What is Public Knowledge   10/3/2009 6:38:43 PM
One wonders if it's public knowledge if these subs are resupplied at sea by an Israeli ship or any other navy and/or whether any naval bases in the area can be used?
 
One also wonders about this articles claim that the Dolphins "are considered the most modern non-nuclear subs in the world"?  Are they really best or rather among the best?  Is their version of the STN Atlas combat system better than say what is used on the Collins class?
 




I wonder if Israel had considered resupplying its subs in the Indian Ocean instead of having them make the long trip home. 





they already do


 
Quote    Reply

jak267       10/5/2009 12:30:19 AM
With clowns like Obama in charge, it's only a matter of time until we find ourselves in a nuclear war we didn't start - but we could have prevented.
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       10/5/2009 12:48:03 AM

One wonders if it's public knowledge if these subs are resupplied at sea by an Israeli ship or any other navy and/or whether any naval bases in the area can be used?

 there were images posted on an Indian forum approx 3 years ago, they were pulled when the poster (a contractor) realised that he'd stuffed up basic opsec

One also wonders about this articles claim that the Dolphins "are considered the most modern non-nuclear subs in the world"?  Are they really best or rather among the best?  Is their version of the STN Atlas combat system better than say what is used on the Collins class?

Collins does not use STN ATLAS, the class is migrating to the same base combat system controller as the US nukes. STN ATLAS didn't get the opportunity to provide a system as RAN elected to go with the base system used in the Virginias, Seawolf, and SSGN's. STN ATLAS threatened to take the Aust Govt to court but reconsidered their position upon reflection.  The ATLAS system was rejected for a number of reasons (sensor power being an obious one)

But, everyone will claim that there subs are the best.  its relative.  there is a fundamental tennet about subs though in that the bigger they are, the more likely that they have efficiencies in energy management and onboard power generation.  the larger the capacity, the greater the ability to run complex battle management systems.  Smaller subs have efficiencies relative to their size.  They used to be perceived as the pre-eminent knife fighters for the littorals.  ADCAP / CBASS changed that equation considerably.

In subs, esp combat systems, size does matter.
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       10/5/2009 12:52:13 AM
re power generation and battle management systems.

have a look at the size of the flank arrays on a seawolf/virginia, collins and a smaller euro sub. then think of all the other sensor systems in concurrent use.

small subs are fine for their environment, but in absolute capability they cannot and do not compare.
 
Quote    Reply

mabie       10/5/2009 8:06:19 AM

... RAN elected to go with the base system used in the Virginias, Seawolf, and SSGN's. 

that's probably the equivalent of entrusting the crown jewels of the USN.. I'd say that would put Aussies at the top of the list for most advanced conventional sub..



 
Quote    Reply

flyingarty    War we didnt start   10/5/2009 8:34:19 AM

With clowns like Obama in charge, it's only a matter of time until we find ourselves in a nuclear war we didn't start - but we could have prevented.


It seems that US foreign policy has now been reduced to "We say mean things to you and we'll say them very crossly. If you are not careful, we'll get our friends to say mean things to you too!" Have to say if Ronnie was president after they discovered the site outside Qom, the B-2's would have been in the air!
 
Flyingarty
 
Quote    Reply

Nasty German Idiot       10/5/2009 9:37:00 AM
Please tell me what a submarine deal btw Germany and Israel has to do with Obamas foreign policy ?  
 
PS:
The first military cooperation treaties were signed between Germany and Israel before there were even real diplomatic relations ...  (the first Uzis [called MP2 in Germany]  arrived in 1959, while official "diplomatic relations" were established in 1965 !)
If anyone needs a (relatively cheap, quiet)  nuclear second strike capability,  its Israel. 
 
Quote    Reply

mabie       10/8/2009 12:52:24 AM
GF.. Aside from the RAN, has the US shared the sheir sensor tech with the UK?
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       10/8/2009 2:13:26 AM

GF.. Aside from the RAN, has the US shared the sheir sensor tech with the UK?
USN has been instrumental in fixing some of the early probs on their latest nukes.  A strategic industry report was provided to State and Dept Commerce as well as Aust to hilight the problems associated with letting local industry degrade. (they did similar rescue work with Aust and Collins)

unfort the thrust of that message has not been absorbed on all sides of the PACRIM and Atlantic within the 5I community

as for specifics, unable to comment.

 
Quote    Reply

mabie       10/8/2009 3:51:14 AM
I understand. Thanks for sharing.
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: 1 2





New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 

StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2009StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy