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Submarines Article Index : Current 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
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Scorpene Sale Runs Onto The Rocks

June 18, 2009: Back in 2005, after years of negotiations, India signed a deal to buy six French Scorpene class diesel-electric submarines. But now problems have developed. The first Scorpene was supposed to enter service by 2012, at a cost of about $500 million. But political and management problems have delayed that date by two years, and raised the price per boat by over $100 million. The French have raised the prices for some key components, and India has had some problems in getting production going on their end. The first Scorpene was to be built in France, with the other five built in India.

The Scorpenes are similar to the Agosta 90B subs (also French) that Pakistan recently bought. The first of the Agosta's was built in France, but the other two were built in Pakistan. The third Pakistani Agosta was delayed over a year because Islamic terrorists had killed some of the French engineers working on the project. The Scorpene purchase was seen as a response to the Pakistani Agostas.

The two designs are similar, with the Scorpene being more recent (and the result of cooperation between a French and a Spanish firm.) The Agosta is a 1,500 ton (surface displacement) diesel-electric sub with a 36 man crew and four 21 inch torpedo tubes (with 20 torpedoes and/or anti-ship missiles carried.) The Scorpene is a little heavier (1700 tons), has a smaller crew (32) and is a little faster. It has six 21 inch torpedo tubes, and carries 18 torpedoes and/or missiles.

Both models can be equipped with an AIP (air independent propulsion) system. This enables the sub to stay under longer, thus making the sub harder to find. AIP allows the sub to travel under water for more than a week, at low speed (5-10 kilometers an hour). The Pakistanis have an option to retrofit AIP in their current two Agostas.

Both of these modern subs are very lethal weapons against surface warships. With well trained crews, Agostas and Scorpenes can get close to just about any surface ship, no matter how good the defenders anti-submarine defenses are. But it's the AIP boats that are the real killers. Without AIP, subs spend most of their time just below surface, using their diesel engines (via a snorkel device that breaks the surface to take in air, and get rid of the engine exhaust.) Snorkels can be spotted by modern maritime patrol aircraft, and both nations are getting more of these. The introduction of the Agostas and Scorpenes was seen as an escalation in the naval arms race between Pakistan and India.

While India was largely concerned with the Pakistani navy when the Scorpene contract was negotiated and signed, China is now seen as the primary adversary. The Chinese subs are not as effective as the Pakistani boats, both because of less advanced technology, and less well trained crews. India could use their Scorpenes to confront any Chinese attempt to expand their naval presence into the Indian ocean. Thus the delays and cost overruns with the Scorpenes are causing quite a lot of commotion in India.

 

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usajoe1    what is going on here?   6/18/2009 4:46:09 AM
Poor India, first the carrier deal from Russia, now this, if I was in the Indian Navy I will be very pissed off right now.
 
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pmukherjee       6/18/2009 11:03:44 AM

Poor India, first the carrier deal from Russia, now this, if I was in the Indian Navy I will be very pissed off right now.


Right on the button buddy. India needs an enhnced naval presence to counter the Chinese threat and these hitches and glitches are not helping any.
 
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DragonReborn       6/18/2009 7:52:57 PM
"China is now seen as the primary adversary. The Chinese subs are not as effective as the Pakistani boats, both because of less advanced technology, and less well trained crews. India could use their Scorpenes to confront any Chinese attempt to expand their naval presence into the Indian ocean."
 
What would stop the Pakistanis giving unrestricted access to their Agosta's to Chineses engineers if the price was right... obviously the US and France would object but I'm sure an enterprising official could work something out?!
 
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Darth Squirrel       6/23/2009 12:36:57 AM
Anything that Pakistan acquires is subject to thorough technical inspection by the Chinese; this is a certainty.  The Chinese gave Pakistan IRBM technology, and they also provided them with the blueprints for a nuclear warhead that could fit atop the missile.  Pakistan has been the benefactor of a Chinese policy to empower a counterweight to India, and the Paks could NEVER have developed a nuclear warhead on their own.  
We all would have been alot better off if Bush would have had the intelligence and the guts to look at the big picture after 9/11 and realize that ultimately (as we are now finding out) Pakistan was too infested with radical Islamists to ever be worth co-opting into the "Global Struggle against Violent Extremism."  Pakistan practically CREATED the Taliban.  We should have let India give them the sledgehammer after the ISI sponsored the attack on the Indian parlament.  Instead, the US exerted enormous pressure on India to do absolutely nothing, and they realized that the War on Terror was friggin' joke and that the real terrorists on the "globe"  (Iran Syria Pakistan and of course the noble palistinians) would not be touched. 
 
The US treated the Indians like fools and showed great contempt for them.  This was a major mistake, but it does dovetail with the asinine Foreign Affairs viewpoint that has lead us to the current disaster (((Nuclear Iran emerging, a powerful nuclear-armed Pakistan slowly falling into the hands of the nutbar Islamic terrorists, international political legitamcy for Hamas, pro-Islamic US foreign policy))).  A great opportunity has been lost to cement a mutually beneficial relationship with a powerful counterweight to China.  That probably explains why we threw in with Pakistan and we got NOTHING for it.  In the US, we have no shortage of China-loving slave-profiteers, suck-ups, kiss-asses, and bought-offs.  Just ask Kissinger.
 
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