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Special Operations: USMC Reorganizes Its Assets
   Next Article → COUNTER-TERRORISM: Pakistan and the al Qaeda Base Area
April 1, 2007: While the U.S. Marine Corps has recruited most of its Force Recon troops into its new special operations units, it has done this in a way that increases the overall special operations capability of the Marine Corps. The Marine Special Operations Command (MARSOC) was recently organized as a force of some 2,600 marines, organized into a headquarters, a two battalion Special Operations Regiment, a Foreign Military Training Unit, and a Marine Special Operations Support Group.

 

The marines basically lost two of their four Force Recon companies (one of them a reserve unit) in order to build MARSOC. Meanwhile, more troops have been added to division level reconnaissance units, to take up some of that slack. The Special Operations companies (with about 120 personnel each) can provide Force Recon capabilities to marine units they are attached to.

 

The two Special Operations Battalions provide a combination of services roughly equal to what the U.S. Army Special Forces and Rangers do, as well as some of the functions of the Force Recon units. Eventually, there are to be nine companies in the two Special Operations Battalion. So far, only four of those companies have been formed.

Next Article → COUNTER-TERRORISM: Pakistan and the al Qaeda Base Area
  

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SCCOMarine       4/2/2007 11:25:42 AM
The story, in true SP fashion, glosses over some facts and combines a lot of different stories into one.  But the Core of the story is something I touched on 2 days ago, and thats the issue of the Corps finally taking on the issue of fixing its neglect and mal-treatment of the Reconnaissance Community.
 
Like I said B4, I myself wasn't in Recon I was in Small Craft, but our Units had a very close relationship so I knew first hand the problems suffered by Recon Marines by neglect and a lack of priority placed on their mission.  Many SCCO Marines were Recon and a few were Force who were in-between contracts.
 
Now do I believe that MARSOC is the fix to Recon's problems?  No, they are two separate issues and two separate Units.  However, they are intertwined and joined at the Hip.
 
This union w/SOCOM will force needed changes for the Reconnaissance Community as a whole for the Marine Corps.
 
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SCCOMarine       4/2/2007 11:59:51 AM

The article mentions recruitment, recruitment was not really a major issue.  A few major issues that I can think of off the top of my head that are being addressed right now b/c of MARSOC are:

  1. The need for a set training pipeline for all new Recon Marines. This is being Ironed out by MARSOC right now. From what I’m told once Ironed out the Div Recon Pipeline will mirror the MARSOC Pipeline for new Reconnaissance Men.
  2. Need for Recon to be a full career path. Although this was settled prior to MARSOC it was something heavily resisted by top Marine brass and only came about through the Corps/SOCOM growing relationship.
  3. Expanded mission for Div Recon. Div is projected, over the next 5yrs, to take on the mission now left vacant by FR. Div Recon Marines were always capable however the Money and priority was rarely allocated.
These are only a few issues that have always been known but never addressed until now.  Its not that Marines are finally stepping up to SOCOM’s level, but that the Corps is finally rectifying injustices done to a First Class Unit receiving Second Class Priority.

In other words, its like admitting you starved and mistreated one child to feed another.
 
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DarkNinja       4/2/2007 4:16:03 PM

The story, in true SP fashion, glosses over some facts and combines a lot of different stories into one.  But the Core of the story is something I touched on 2 days ago, and thats the issue of the Corps finally taking on the issue of fixing its neglect and mal-treatment of the Reconnaissance Community.

 

Like I said B4, I myself wasn't in Recon I was in Small Craft, but our Units had a very close relationship so I knew first hand the problems suffered by Recon Marines by neglect and a lack of priority placed on their mission.  Many SCCO Marines were Recon and a few were Force who were in-between contracts.

 

Now do I believe that MARSOC is the fix to Recon's problems?  No, they are two separate issues and two separate Units.  However, they are intertwined and joined at the Hip.

 

This union w/SOCOM will force needed changes for the Reconnaissance Community as a whole for the Marine Corps.



How is SOCOM the magic potion for all that ails the Recon Community???  What does SOCOM bring to the fight that other units weren't doing before???
Lets see...is it....
Airfield seizure---nope...the 82nd did that before the Rangers took it from them....
is it...
Beach Recon---nope...Marine Recon did that in conjunction with UDT before the SEALs took that ....
is it...
Deep Recon--nope...Marine Recon, LRRPs, Recondo and other REGULAR units did that before it became "SPECIAL" so that's a no go too...
so what does that leave us with????  HOSTAGE RESCUE!  That is the only special skill that SOCOM units provide that many regular units inside the US Military don't practice on a daily basis.  That one skill which is duplicated by several civilian law enforcement agencies (federal, state and local)...I do not believe that one skill set justifies the creation of an entire command.  Lets be honest.  SOCOM is the child the failed hostage rescue attempt.  Since then its been absorbing a greater amount of the budget with fewer returns.  Except for classified missions (which are outside the scope of this anyway...Delta and ST6 should report directly to JCS) all operations have taken place in conjunction with regular forces.  In supporting those operations they require support, sustainment and reinforcement by the regular unit they are in theater with while remaining autonomous.  If a child is being starved, its the regular operating forces, not the SOCOM personnel.


Oh and have you noticed how SOCOM continues to swallow up personnel??? 
Force Recon, SF, ST, CCT, PJ, Rangers, Small Boat Units, CW, an Army Aviation Unit, an Airforce Aviation Unit, the beat goes on...and that doesn't include Navy EOD, Marine Snipers, Army Snipers, Pathfinders, Intel personnel, Comm personnel, armorers, maintenance --and then can call on any ordinary unit that it wants!....at this rate the entire US Military will belong to SOCOM...its not as exclusive a club as admirers like yourself seem to think
 
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DarkNinja       4/2/2007 4:27:24 PM

The story, in true SP fashion, glosses over some facts and combines a lot of different stories into one.  But the Core of the story is something I touched on 2 days ago, and thats the issue of the Corps finally taking on the issue of fixing its neglect and mal-treatment of the Reconnaissance Community.

 

Like I said B4, I myself wasn't in Recon I was in Small Craft, but our Units had a very close relationship so I knew first hand the problems suffered by Recon Marines by neglect and a lack of priority placed on their mission.  Many SCCO Marines were Recon and a few were Force who were in-between contracts.

 

Now do I believe that MARSOC is the fix to Recon's problems?  No, they are two separate issues and two separate Units.  However, they are intertwined and joined at the Hip.

 

This union w/SOCOM will force needed changes for the Reconnaissance Community as a whole for the Marine Corps.



How is SOCOM the magic potion for all that ails the Recon Community???  What does SOCOM bring to the fight that other units weren't doing before???
Lets see...is it....
Airfield seizure---nope...the 82nd did that before the Rangers took it from them....
is it...
Beach Recon---nope...Marine Recon did that in conjunction with UDT before the SEALs took that ....
is it...
Deep Recon--nope...Marine Recon, LRRPs, Recondo and other REGULAR units did that before it became "SPECIAL" so that's a no go too...
so what does that leave us with????  HOSTAGE RESCUE!  That is the only special skill that SOCOM units provide that many regular units inside the US Military don't practice on a daily basis.  That one skill which is duplicated by several civilian law enforcement agencies (federal, state and local)...I do not believe that one skill set justifies the creation of an entire command.  Lets be honest.  SOCOM is the child the failed hostage rescue attempt.  Since then its been absorbing a greater amount of the budget with fewer returns.  Except for classified missions (which are outside the scope of this anyway...Delta and ST6 should report directly to JCS) all operations have taken place in conjunction with regular forces.  In supporting those operations they require support, sustainment and reinforcement by the regular unit they are in theater with while remaining autonomous.  If a child is being starved, its the regular operating forces, not the SOCOM personnel.


Oh and have you noticed how SOCOM continues to swallow up personnel??? 
Force Recon, SF, ST, CCT, PJ, Rangers, Small Boat Units, CW, an Army Aviation Unit, an Airforce Aviation Unit, the beat goes on...and that doesn't include Navy EOD, Marine Snipers, Army Snipers, Pathfinders, Intel personnel, Comm personnel, armorers, maintenance --and then can call on any ordinary unit that it wants!....at this rate the entire US Military will belong to SOCOM...its not as exclusive a club as admirers like yourself seem to think
 
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SCCOMarine       4/3/2007 4:54:26 PM
Hey guy, your obviously suffering from a bad case of lack-o-read-ee-itis.  Nothing I said says SOCOM brings anything to the table.
 
The fact is/was the Recon Community has long suffered Second Citizen status as far as priorities go in the MC; funding, manpower, organizational/structural changes, the list goes on.
 
The MC, and rightfully so, focuses almost all of its priorities towards the infantry.  But many times its at the expense of every other unit.  Specialty Units were seen as sports cars, so there needs were expendable
 
Look at how ANGLICO was *SS Raped in the 90's.  It was only after A'stan that the Corps began to look at how neglected their Specialized units had become, and in 2003 ANGLICO was reborn along w/ 2nd Force Recon.
 
This was only brought to life after the USMC/SOCOM semi-annual boards were brought back in 2002. 
 
W/out laying out every freaking detail that lead up to MARSOC, the formation of MARSOC forced the Corps to re-evaluate its priorities involving its neglect of its Specialty Units.
 
Recon Marines have been begging for YEARS really decades for the Corps to make 0321 a career field, meaning Pvt-MGySgt, to no avail.  B/C the thinking was that the infantry would lose its best Marines for good, being that the Corps prioritized Infantry over Recon.  Once a 0321 picked up SSgt he was move back to the Infantry and could only pray to end up back in a Recon unit.
 
Specialty Units in the Corps are benefiting from this relationship b/c the Corps is finally giving their missions the priority they deserve. 
 
It has nothing to do w/ SOCOM improving the Units smart guy, it has to do w/ the Corps finally reconciling long standing issues due to its new relationship.
 
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SCCOMarine       4/3/2007 5:16:11 PM
Also I think your under the misconception that the Corps is somehow losing these capabilities to SOCOM/MARSOC.  If so that would be wrong.
 
FR was absorbed into SOCOM b/c their capabilities were needed immediately.  Over the next 5yr those same capabilties are going to be grown in the Div Recon BN.  So FR hasn't gone anywhere. 
 
And in the next 5yr those same Marines making up the Recon element of the MSOC's will be rotated right back to the Div Recon BN.  It'll be the same for all the Spec. Units in the Corps.  Their training will mirror each other and the Marines will be interchangeable from MARSOC to USMC Spec Units.
 
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