NEW: Follow the Editorial Staff on
StrategyPage Twitter Link


GROUND COMBAT +

AIR COMBAT +

NAVAL OPERATIONS +

SPECIAL OPERATIONS +

HUMAN FACTORS +

SPECIAL WEAPONS +

WARFARE BY THE NUMBERS +

LOGISTICS +

TOOLS +


Visit StrategyPage's US Cavalry Store



Procurement Article Index : Current 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

F-22ski Scores First Sales

August 21, 2009: The Russian Air Force has ordered another 64 jet fighters from Sukhoi, for $2.5 billion. Most (48) of these will be the Su-35, and all will be delivered within six years. The other aircraft are twelve Su-27SMs and four Su-30M2 fighter bombers. These sixteen aircraft will be delivered within two years. All of these aircraft are variations on the Cold War era Su-27, which was built to deal with the U.S. F-15.

The Su-35 is the most advanced of these Su-27 designs, sometimes referred as the F-22ski. Four months ago, one of the two prototypes of the Su-35s crashed on takeoff. The cause was a problem with one of the two engines. A third prototype is under construction. Russia had hoped to have the destroyed prototype fly over the May Day parade in Moscow on May 1st. The crash was really bad PR, since one of the consistent shortcomings of Russian warplanes has been the unreliable engines. But the project is moving forward, and Russia expects to export over 160 Su-35s in the next five years, and eventually have more F-35s in service than the U.S. has F-22s.

It was a year ago that the Su-35 had its first flight. In late 2007, the Russian Air Force showed off the first of two flyable prototypes. It was just three years ago, that Russia announced its long promised Su-35 fighter, was back in development again, after having been stalled for over six years because of cash shortages.

The Su-35 is an enhanced Su-30 (itself a development of the Cold War era Su-27), and has been in development since the 1990s. At one point, it was called the Su-37, but the name was changed back to Su-35. Since the 1990s, time, many Su-35 prototypes were built, and apparently no two were identical. There were many disagreements over what direction the development should take, and by the late 1990s, the project was basically suspended for lack of funding.

The Russians want to sell Su-35s to China, India and other foreign customers, and this opportunity turned the cash flow back on. Apparently Russia now has the billions of dollars it will take to carry out the Su-35 development program. India has become a partner, contributing cash, technology and manufacturing capability.

The Su-35 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the original, 33 ton, Su-27, and has much better electronics. It can cruise at above the speed of sound. It also costs at least fifty percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a barebones model), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the F-15, which is larger than the single engine F-16. The larger size of the Su-27/35, allows designers to do a lot more with it in terms of modifications and enhancements.

The Su-35 is to have some stealth capabilities (or at least be less detectable to most fighter aircraft radars). Russia is promising a fighter with a life of 6,000 flight hours, and engines good for 4,000 hours. Russia promises world-class avionics, plus a very pilot-friendly cockpit. The use of many thrusters and fly-by-wire will produce an aircraft even more maneuverable than earlier Su-30s (which have been extremely agile).

The Su-35 is not meant to be a direct rival for the F-22, because the Russian aircraft is not nearly as stealthy. The Su-35 will carry a 30mm autocannon (with 150 rounds) and up to eight tons of munitions, hanging from 12 hard points. This reduces stealthiness, which the F-22 and F-35 get around by using an internal bay for bombs and missiles. But if the maneuverability and advanced electronics of the proposed Su-35 live up to the promises, the aircraft would be more than a match for every fighter out there except the F-22. If such an Su-35 was sold for well under $100 million each, there would be a lot of buyers.

submit to reddit
Send Link to a Friend
Next Article SPECIAL OPERATIONS: Rangers Reluctantly Ride


Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

cwDeici       8/21/2009 6:10:11 AM
Hoo boy, if the Russians were half as deluded as the French...
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       8/21/2009 6:10:56 AM
There would be idiotic posts here that is.
Thankfully the Russians around here are largely sane and objective.
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       8/21/2009 6:13:27 AM
Btw., you forgot to include the F-35. The Sukhoi would lose because of its superior stealth.
 
Quote    Reply

YelliChink       8/22/2009 12:32:41 AM
I thought this is F-22ski:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

RtWingCon       8/22/2009 3:20:48 AM

I thought this is F-22ski:







 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
no, that's clever animation using an F22 as a template. But you knew that. The article says it's more maneuverable than previous models, no doubt, but can it out maneuver an AMRAAM. Saw a Russian sales video of the Su-27, they are very high on maneuverability. Great for airshows and sales, but is it practical given today's enviroment and tactics. Isn't there a point where the radical moves just make you blackout? Hope a fighter pilot let's us know. Last point, why would Russia sell to China if they know it will pirated. Doesn't jive with previous articles.

 
Quote    Reply

RtWingCon    Stealth   8/22/2009 3:32:28 AM
Does anyone know what the Russians first generation stealth has been? Or is the Su-35 their first attempt? My limited understanding of stealth is you can't just make an existing airframe stealth. Everything on the plane has to be taken into account from the ground up and from the start of design. This Su-35 stealthyness is PR for the Russian public and their customers IMO. In other words hardpoints or not, it will be seen,tracked, and targeted before it can perform the"cobra".
 
Quote    Reply

Das Kardinal       8/22/2009 5:30:01 AM

Hoo boy, if the Russians were half as deluded as the French...

No French I know ever called the Rafale a F22-like. But obviously you have to peddle your Frenchbashing everywhere. Maybe it's in your nature, like how dogs have to piss on street lamps, it's not their fault and there's no sense being angry at them ;-)

Anyway, I expected the article to be about the PAK-FA, which deserves the F22ski moniker a lot more than the SU-35, really. I'm a little bit puzzled by the "use of many thrusters" tidbit. Does it mean the SU-35 has clusters of RCS thrusters ? I think not. 
 
Quote    Reply

FreeW       8/22/2009 9:23:21 AM
Wishful thinking of GRU propagandists. But keep up the good work.
 
Quote    Reply

razputin       8/23/2009 12:34:22 AM

Wishful thinking of GRU propagandists. But keep up the good work.
GRU is not responsible for propaganda abroad. SVR is. GRU is concerned with providing military intelligence to the general staff and taking out the nuclear missile sites and key political leaders abroad in the case of a war with the West. Nowadays they just make up for the sorry state that the Red/Russian Army has been for the last 20-25 years. GRU operatives have proved to be very effective in counterinsurgency operations in the Caucasus even though that mission is very much out their scope. But all of this is besides the point..............
 
Su-35 is no match for F-22. It is always said to pocess 5th gen fighter features from PAKFA project but that is more of a selling point by Sukhoi. PAK FA when and if it flies could be referred as F-22ski or compared to F22 or F-35. I believe it will still lack in many areas and especially in that of stealth when compared to F22 but will be a match to F-35. F22 is an exceptional aircraft. A crown achievement of the US military af tech. Unfortunately for the US it has some design flaws which will put the cap on that plane at 187-200 units with all the money going towards F-35 dev (which I think is a mistake).  
 
Su-35 still has its market. Russia can still sell it to Asian customers. Sukhoi/UAC just need to work on the customer support and quality assurance which is a general problem for all Russian aircraft producers.
 
Also  Russia needs stealth like Switzerland needs stealth. Not one of our neighbors possesses the type of air defense that could really stop the Russian AF if it was outfitted with a combination of modernized Su-27, Su-35S, Su-34 and Mig-35 aircraft. Any war with the West will be thermonuclear anyways. Stealth will not play a significant role in that sort of conflict. The PAK FA project is more of a PR stunt. We can do it too kind of thing. The number of PAKFA aicraft deployed with Russian AF by 2020 will still be limited due to its high cost. In any case the logic within the Soviet/Russian NIIs has always been that the radar/air defense tech will outperform stealth tech developments. That was not the case because the R&D in the area of air defense slowed down significantly in the mid 80's for reasons I won't go through here. But that may just change since many of the projects frozen in the late 80's have been reopened in 2006 and there are funds allocated for years ahead.
 
Quote    Reply

formercccp    here is my thinking   8/25/2009 12:07:04 AM
f22 & f35 vs tactical airburst nukes.

long wave radar should be able to paint the planes coming in to "attack" mother russia.. approximate painting is sufficent.. then......what if russians deploy tac nukes on s300 s400, and add some gorgons and gazelles all along the possible inbound routes, save the money on the planes, be like Chruschev, build missles, and then saturate the airspace over say.. poland, those guys arent helping the Russian cause anyway. 

Right after russia runs out of tactical nukes, China will roll in on planes and horses.

....err.. or what looks like horses.. .but really just copies of horses with..horses are bred without license and violating copyrights.. followed by copies of Su27s, flown by paper mache copies of Tom Cruise with "made in china" Maverick labelled helmets... and capture all of Russia east of the Urals!

.... thank god china government has not blocked strategy page, former cccp - bored to death in china... signing off.
:)
 
Quote    Reply

razputin       8/26/2009 10:18:43 AM

Talking about stealth in relation to the Sukhoi Su-27 and its extended family, including the new Su-35S, tends to cause people to fall over in fits of mirth. Like Chandler's Moose Malloy, the basic airplane looks about as inconspicuous as a tarantula on a slice of angel food.

But just about six years ago, in late 2003, Defense IQ managed to persuade a team from the Institute of Theoretical and Applied Electromagnetics (ITAE), part of the Russian Academy of Sciences, to present at a conference on stealth in London. I was a presenter - I don't recall any other journalists being present. It sounded as if the paper was going to be some kind of theoretical snorefest and I didn't expect much from it.

I was wrong. 

The ITAE researchers produced a highly detailed paper showing how the institute had developed radar cross-section (RCS) prediction software, test facilities for measuring the RCS of real aircraft, and a variety of RCS-reduction materials, all with the Su-27 family as the main application. One illustration showed an RCS test on Bort (fuselage number) 708, one of the Su-27M prototypes that were precursors to the Su-35S:

 

blog post photo
ITAE

 

The invaluable Flateric has recently posted my full account here, together with some artwork from the paper. (Ignore the comments from the f-16.net F-35 fans, who have a hard time with words of more than two syllables.) 

According to the paper, the ITAE researchers had found materials that solved the dominant problem in the Sukhoi design:  straight-through inlets to the compressor face, with no line-of-sight blockage. Rather than placing an absorber-treated blocker in front of the engine, as on the Super Hornet, ITAE developed a radar absorbent material (RAM) that could be applied to the first-stage compressor blades. The rest of the RAM suite included a metallic treated canopy and sprayed-on RAM coatings on the missiles. 

ITAE had also experimented with a plasma screen in front of the radar antenna. Details were few - it was possible that it was contained in some kind of dielectric plastic envelope - but it could be switched on and off in tens of microseconds, so that it could be turned off when the radar needed to operate and turned on at other times. Along with RCS-reduction treatments for the exhaust, it seemed less mature than the rest of the technology. 

One year later, the same presenter appeared at IQPC's conference. I asked him if any production aircraft had been modified, and he responded that "about 100" Sukhois had received RCS-reduction mods. 

Of course, this by no means will render a Sukhoi invisible - and similar measures have been implemented on many aircraft, including F-16s (Have Glass I and II), the Super Hornet and new European fighters. But when you consider that the most recent versions carry a very serious jamming suite, the complexion of the issue changes.

Jamming and RCS reduction are highly synergistic. The "burn-through" range - the point at which none of my jamming works because the jammer power is less than the scatter from the target - goes down much more quickly with lower RCS than the detection range.

Yes, there are "home-on-jam" technologies that can be applied to missiles - but if the missile's computer has to match its wits with the agility of the jammer, it's a more dicey proposition. New jammers with solid state directional transmitters and digital RF memory (DRFM), which allows you to parrot the incoming signal back in a nanosecond, can give anyone a hard time. 

 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       8/28/2009 2:15:27 PM
This reduces stealthiness, which the F-22 and F-35 get around by using an internal bay for bombs and missiles. But if the maneuverability and advanced electronics of the proposed Su-35 live up to the promises, the aircraft would be more than a match for every fighter out there except the F-22. If such an Su-35 was sold for well under $100 million each, there would be a lot of buyers.
 
 
Another crap strategypage "article", written badly- wild speculation, "the aircraft would be more than a match for every fighter out there except the F-22"- What a fanstically unsourced, blasé statement. This could have been written by the idiot.
 
ReactivE
 
Quote    Reply





New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 

StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2009StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy