Naval Air Article Index : Current 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

Japan Seeks A New Class Of Larger Carriers

September 4, 2009: Japan is now planning a second, larger class of 763 foot long, 25,000 ton aircraft carriers. How can that be? Japan's post-World War II constitution specifically forbids its navy (ah, make that, "Naval Self-Defense Force") from having aircraft carriers. Very simple, Japan has already built two "helicopter-carrying destroyers" that happen to just look like aircraft carriers. A class of "helicopter-carrying cruisers" would apparently keep the constitutional lawyers quiet.

Japan recently launched its second aircraft carrier ( the Ise) since World War II. This past March, it commissioned the first of these ships, the "helicopter-carrying destroyer" Hyuga. These are 610 foot long, 18,000 ton warships that operates up to 11 (mostly SH-60) helicopters from a full length flight deck. Although called a destroyer, it very much looks like an aircraft carrier. While its primary function is anti-submarine warfare, the Hyuga will also give Japan its first real power projection capability since 1945. The Hyuga is the largest warship built in Japan since World War II. The Japanese constitution forbids it to have aircraft carriers, which is the main reason it is called a destroyer. That, and the desire to not make the neighbors anxious. East Asian nations still have bad memories about the last time Japan had lots of aircraft carriers.

The Hyuga also has 16 Mk41 VLS (Vertical Launch System) cells for anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles. There are also two 20mm Phalanx anti-missile cannon and two triple 12.75-inch torpedo mounts. There is a crew of 350 and a top speed of about 60 kilometers. Vertical takeoff jets like the Harrier and F-35B could also operate from the Hyuga. A third Hyuga class ship is planned.

The last Japanese warship to be called the Hyuga was a World War II battleship that entered service in 1918, and was converted to a hybrid battleship/aircraft carrier in 1943. The new Hyuga will be used for peacekeeping missions as well, and for that role its many helicopters will be most useful. During World War II, there was also a Japanese battleships named Ise, which was the lead ship of a class of ships that also contained the Hyuga. Both were 35,000 ton warships, and both were sunk, in the same week, in late July 1945. The Ise was also rebuilt, during the war, as an aircraft carrier (actually a hybrid battleship/aircraft carrier.)

The Japanese are apparently quite pleased with their new carriers, and much relieved that there was not a worldwide uproar over how they circumvented their own constitution. The Japanese Navy is apparently back in the carrier business, 64 years after the last of their World War II carriers went to the bottom.

 

Next Article → AFGHANISTAN: Nowhere To Run
  
Make A Comment    View Comments (64)

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7   NEXT
maruben    Parmenion   9/9/2009 12:06:13 PM
Domo Arigato Gozaimasu!
 
Or in English: Thank you very much!
 
Quote    Reply

History Buff    For Slowman   9/9/2009 1:23:07 PM
I can understand your fears of Japan, but their history and their alliance with the U.S. since WWII have shown them to be a solid ally.  There is little chance that they would try to revert to Imperial Japan conquest mode.  Since you are from S.Korea, you should view the Japanese as your allies against N.Korea and China, not as your enemy.
 
Regarding my earlier comment on Japan's F-15Js being used as bombers via aerial refueling to NK and back, you essentially said it was impossible because the F-15J is just a variant of the F-15C, which is "only" for Air-to-Air.  That is partially true....both the C and J variants are designed PRIMARILY for Air-to-Air, but they are capable of accomodating bombs up to 2,000 lbs (900 kg), one on each wing (more if the bombs are smaller).  Their guidance systems are not optimized for bomb-delivery, as is the F-15E, but it can be done with practice.  I do not have specific information that such modifications have been made, but I suspect that bomb-dropping could be fairly accurate with GPS or LGBs.  I do know that the Japanese have been quite energized by N.Korea's increasing aggressiveness since the Clinton Era.  I also know that the Japanese F-15Js have been perfecting their aerial refueling skills many years before their recent acquisition of the KC-767s, so they are already up to speed, without the usual 3-4 year lag before integrating new systems into their doctrine and training.  No, Japan is not going to re-invade or bomb S.Korea.
 
Finally, you mentioned "ship count" of today's JNSDF as being 1/2 as much as the IJN ship count in WWII, but that neglects the salient fact that the IJN was composed of much larger, longer-ranged, offensive ships than today.  They had lots of offensive battleships, heavy cruisers, and at least 5 classes of carriers larger than even the 22DDH.  One of those, the Shinano (which we sank before it actually reached IOC) was more than 60,000 tons and 850 feet long, thus approaching today's "supercarrier" status.
 
Japan knows full well that even a war with tiny N.Korea would be extremely costly in terms of lives and damage, so you can rest assured that Japan has too much to lose.  This is NOTHING like the early 20th Century when Japan's megalomaniac leaders were trying to aggressively establish its place in the world, and were willing to risk everything (but WWII taught them that they were not SUPERMEN who would always prevail, as they originally believed).  They will NOT be the initiators of any new war in the Far East.  Leave that to the Maximum Leaders who are feeding their own egos.  Japan will serve as a good deterrent counterweight to those crazies.
 
Quote    Reply

SlowMan       9/9/2009 2:52:37 PM
@ History Buff

> I can understand your fears of Japan

??? I don't fear Japan.

> No, Japan is not going to re-invade or bomb S. Korea.

That depends on what is defined as "Japan" and what is defined as "Korea". Neither Japanese mainland nor Korean mainland is at play.

The territory in dispute is a pair of small islets in the middle of a sea, and hundreds of millions of square miles of EEZ surrounding it. The tension has been rising, not decreasing, over the years and many foreign observers fear a grand naval showdown that would make Falklands War look like a child's play, with hundreds of fighters in the sky and thousands of anti-ship missiles flying toward each other's fleet. Both sides have run extensive war simulation over this conflict and produced many academic and strategic paper on how to execute this war.

> Finally, you mentioned "ship count" of today's JNSDF as being 1/2 as much as the IJN ship count in WWII, but that neglects the salient fact that the IJN was composed of much larger, longer-ranged, offensive ships than today.

I am sure a 10,000 ton Aegis destroyer is far more effective in combat than Yamato.

> Japan knows full well that even a war with tiny N.Korea would be extremely costly in terms of lives and damage

Japan does not plan to fight NK.

> This is NOTHING like the early 20th Century when Japan's megalomaniac leaders were trying to aggressively establish its place in the world, and were willing to risk everything.

And the same people returned to politics, founded LDP, and ruled Japan for 60 years.

For example, outgoing Prime Minister Aso come from a family that used allied POWs as forced labor in mining operation to get rich. So what happened to leadership of Imperial Japan post war? Nothing. It was politics as usual, again regaining control of Japanese politics.

>  They will NOT be the initiators of any new war in the Far East.

Don't bet on it.

> Japan will serve as a good deterrent counterweight to those crazies.

What if Japan's next PM is one of those crazies. At least that's what Japan's neighbors fear.
 
Quote    Reply

RunSilentRunDeep    New administration, new priorities   9/9/2009 11:46:00 PM
With an incoming socialist/left-wing/ultra-pacifist administration and their allies under Yukio Hatoyama, defense spending will be the first one to be gutted. The 24ddh project may be shelved indefinitely.
 
30,000-ton full displacement is too small to accomodate the F-35, unless Japan will develop their own SVTOL planes for carrier use.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

SlowMan       9/10/2009 10:51:33 AM
@ RunSilentRunDeep

> With an incoming socialist/left-wing/ultra-pacifist administration and their allies under Yukio Hatoyama, defense spending will be the first one to be gutted. The 24ddh project may be shelved indefinitely.

In Asia, it is the leftwing politicians that run arms race in the name of "self-reliance" on defense. The irony of it is that the call for less-reliance on American troops actually increases demand for advanced American weapons.

> 30,000-ton full displacement is too small to accomodate the F-35

That's like only 10,000 ton less than US LPHs, and of roughly same flight deck area.

 
Quote    Reply

RunSilentRunDeep       9/10/2009 12:46:43 PM

@ RunSilentRunDeep



> With an incoming socialist/left-wing/ultra-pacifist administration and their allies under Yukio Hatoyama, defense spending will be the first one to be gutted. The 24ddh project may be shelved indefinitely.



In Asia, it is the leftwing politicians that run arms race in the name of "self-reliance" on defense. The irony of it is that the call for less-reliance on American troops actually increases demand for advanced American weapons.



> 30,000-ton full displacement is too small to accomodate the F-35



That's like only 10,000 ton less than US LPHs, and of roughly same flight deck area.
Historically in Japan, the right-wingers/ultra-nationalists were the one's who's calling for a stronger military. Hatoyama and the DPJ is completely the opposite. They have in the past called to reduce the defense funding for the JSDF. With the DPJ and their new allies SDP in control of both the Upper and Lower House of the Diet, they can force Japan's Ministry of Defense to shelve the 22DDH project. 
The ship w/ a 30,000-ton full displacement carrying a squadron of F-35B's would end up pitching and rolling on high seas... It would be ok if the 22DDH is to field a squadron of Harrier II, or a smaller indigenous STOVL fighters instead of the F35-B's. Increase the displacement to 50,000 metric tons, then the ship would be able to accomodate twenty/thirty  F35-B.
Same goes for the Hyuga-class DDH's. It would need to retrofit the flight deck for it to carry VTOL's.
 


 


 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       9/10/2009 1:52:49 PM
I see 3 reasons for Japan to build helicopters carriers:
1: to support amphibious operations with helicopters since helicopters has shorter range and speed and need to be based closed to theater to achive good sorties rate.
2: to remove softly like Germany did pre WW2 restriction (with battleships): you build larger and larger ships and at the end, you end with real 50 000 tons aircraft carrier you could modify for CATOBAR in a year
3: helicopter carriers could be used with air defense helicopters with would give a possibility of targeting over horizon aircraft, sea skimmer missiles or ships
Imagine a Apache helicopter with the same combat system of a F22 and able to carry air to air missile similar to meteor or AMRAAM D (or even heavy antiship weapons) and which would be used as AWAC or to designate over the horizon against low level threats and ships to surface ship base long range SAM or antiships missiles.
This would solve problem for a surface group to act outside Japan air superiority area of ground based fighters
 
Quote    Reply

RunSilentRunDeep    Italian Navy's Cavour   9/10/2009 1:56:39 PM

We'll wait and see how the Cavour handles a squadron of F-35B's once it becomes operational.

 
Quote    Reply

SlowMan       9/10/2009 1:59:58 PM
@ RunSilentRunDeep

> Historically in Japan, the right-wingers/ultra-nationalists were the one's who's calling for a stronger military.

No, right-wingers call for stronger alliance with the US. They are happy with current SDF system as is, only stronger.

Asian left-wingers call for self-reliance on defense issues and removal/reduction of US troops from their territory, and this was true in Taiwan, Korea, and now Japan. The reason Hatoyama's calling for an issue of official written formal apology document to its neighbors is so that Japan could become a "normal" country again, with regular Japanese military taking over national defense from the US forces in Japan.

> The ship w/ a 30,000-ton full displacement carrying a squadron of F-35B's would end up pitching and rolling on high seas

Italians are planning to operate their F-35Bs from an even smaller carrier than 22DDH, Cavour. 22DDH is perfectly suitable for F-35B operation.

Likewise Korean LHD2 program, which has F-35B capability(Not necessarily Korean owned ones, since USMC regularly "burrows" Korean LHDs to conduct joint landing exercise in the region), also calls for a ship of 30,000 ton full-load displacement.


Korean LHD2 mock-up.
 
Quote    Reply

RunSilentRunDeep       9/10/2009 2:58:00 PM

@ RunSilentRunDeep



> Historically in Japan, the right-wingers/ultra-nationalists were the one's who's calling for a stronger military.



No, right-wingers call for stronger alliance with the US. They are happy with current SDF system as is, only stronger.



Asian left-wingers call for self-reliance on defense issues and removal/reduction of US troops from their territory, and this was true in Taiwan, Korea, and now Japan. The reason Hatoyama's calling for an issue of official written formal apology document to its neighbors is so that Japan could become a "normal" country again, with regular Japanese military taking over national defense from the US forces in Japan.



> The ship w/ a 30,000-ton full displacement carrying a squadron of F-35B's would end up pitching and rolling on high seas



Italians are planning to operate their F-35Bs from an even smaller carrier than 22DDH, Cavour. 22DDH is perfectly suitable for F-35B operation.



Likewise Korean LHD2 program, which has F-35B capability(Not necessarily Korean owned ones, since USMC regularly "burrows" Korean LHDs to conduct joint landing exercise in the region), also calls for a ship of 30,000 ton full-load displacement.





Korean LHD2 mock-up.


Time and time again the DPJ have called for reduction of defense spending, the PM-to-be Yukio Hatoyama fits the same mold. Yes, they want Japan to be less-reliant with the US, but at the same time, they want to reduce the defense budget and use the said money for social services. It was the LDP who wants to revise (or at least modify) the Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution.  This is the same DPJ who would rather negotiate and strike a deal with NoKor rather than impose a economic embargo on the authoritarian regime. Japan is rapidly becoming gutless and prefer to be pushed around. 
 

Not til the  F-35B's become operational, we can only speculate how a 30,000-ton ship handles a squadron of 18 F-35B's.
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7   NEXT