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Murphy's Law Article Index : Current 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
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Herr Oberst Was Correct

November 3, 2009: A NATO investigation of a recent bombing incident, concluded that the German officer who called in an air strike, that killed some civilians, made the correct decision. This involved a case, two months ago, where German troops called in a U.S. air strike on two fuel tankers hijacked by the Taliban. The German colonel (or "Oberst" in German) who authorized the strike was promptly criticized for not making sure there were no civilians around the tankers, which were stuck in the sand. The Taliban had invited local civilians to come and steal the fuel, apparently to lighten the trucks so they could move on. The German commander wanted to make sure the vehicles did not get away, and later be used for truck bomb attacks against Afghan or NATO forces. But the new ROE (Rules Of Engagement) insists that civilian casualties be avoided at all costs. There is still some debate over the exact "costs" to be used in these calculations.

The Taliban sought to turn bombing this into another media victory. They need this, because the Taliban continue to have more success on the Information War front, than in actual combat. The incident, where German troops called in a U.S. air strike on two fuel tankers hijacked by the Taliban, become a Taliban victory, at least in the local and international media. That's because, even though civilian losses, from NATO action, are lower than any war in history, much lower than Iraq, and most of them are actually caused by the Taliban, the U.S. has decided that any civilian losses will be turned into a media victory by Taliban publicists. The Taliban have capitalized on Afghan cultural quirks (we are masters of our domain, while we are also perpetual victims of imperialist violence), and how the drug gangs have many Afghan leaders and media on the payroll, to make every civilian killed by foreign troops to be an avoidable war crime. Afghan civilians took advantage of violent encounters with foreign troops to claim dead (creating graves, with a dead animal in it to fool sensors) so they could receive compensation payments from NATO or U.S. forces. Afghanistan is a very corrupt country, where scamming your neighbor is a very popular sport. This is considered perfectly legit when committed against "foreigners" (who can be anyone not from your tribe, family, or neighborhood).

The new ROE are often implemented so energetically that American troop morale is plummeting in some units, where U.S. and Afghan combat casualties are going up. American commanders are trying to keep a lid on this, but the growing number of incidents will eventually become another hot media story and scandal that must be fixed. Good luck with that one.

 

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grishnackh       11/3/2009 11:34:06 AM
"That's because, even though civilian losses, from NATO action, are lower than any war in history, much lower than Iraq, and most of them are actually caused by the Taliban, the U.S. has decided that any civilian losses will be turned into a media victory by Taliban publicists."

This seems like a lame bit of editorializing. The U.S. government has not decided this at any level. Treatment of civilian deaths by media outlets worldwide has helped Taliban publicists leverage such incidents into information war victories, not any U.S. decree. That Western rules of engagement have been modified to try and limit civilian casualties is merely a reflection of this fact.
 
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ndonovan    If bombs made noise?   11/3/2009 12:08:58 PM
This may be a stupid question...
 
Does a bomb dropping from the air make a loud noise as it approaches?  Could it?  I assume we would want a bomb to be silent and fast if we were hitting only bad guys, but it would be handy if we were dropping a bomb on a target with civilians around if the bomb came in slow and very, very noise (like the siren on a Stuka)
 
Is this possible?
 
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Nasty German Idiot       11/3/2009 1:36:34 PM
 
The German voter has elected a Government that will strenghen the German Army soon, that is whats most important about this issue. And this incident happened well before the election, but People didnt care or to the contrary express understanding for the Commander of Kunduz.  The German Commander Oberst Klein was officially cleared of guilt by the highest German General Schneiderhahn last week in a press conference. The first thing that our new Defense Minister (married to the grand-grand daughter of Bismarck by the Way - yes the Bismarck)  said today was that every new rescource or technology will be put to use in Afghanistan directly
 
Dont worry, the Taliban will stay busy digging new mass graves in the North ...
 
 
 
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Photon       11/3/2009 3:38:25 PM
As wars like that of Afghanistan proliferate, there will be a need for changes in war conventions and corresponding changes in fighting organizations.
 
The military may need to establish an extensive espionage branch of its own, whose job is to infiltrate into those civilian organizations that can hamper or compromise its missions and objectives.  If push becomes a shove, such an espionage branch should have the license to abduct, blackmail, and even kill.  In short, an 'unrestricted warfare'.  Furthermore, additional branch whose job is to pacify hostile civilian population and use force as needed.  We now have WMDs, so the pacification part should be rather straightforward, if we do not mind putting up some numbers.
 
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WarNerd       11/4/2009 4:42:09 AM

The military may need to establish an extensive espionage branch of its own, whose job is to infiltrate into those civilian organizations that can hamper or compromise its missions and objectives.  If push becomes a shove, such an espionage branch should have the license to abduct, blackmail, and even kill.  In short, an 'unrestricted warfare'. 


 Despite (or maybe because of) the appeal of snuffing a pack of editors and reporters, this is probably a very bad idea.

 Furthermore, additional branch whose job is to pacify hostile civilian population and use force as needed.  We now have WMDs, so the pacification part should be rather straightforward, if we do not mind putting up some numbers.


 
The old 'self illuminating glass bottomed parking lot' option will always have a certain appeal, but is a logistical nightmare to carry out because of the low population density in potential targets and the lack of a central command.
 
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Headlock       11/5/2009 12:02:22 PM
Spot the net troll....

 
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Nasty German Idiot       11/5/2009 12:55:41 PM
link
 
22 Taliban Militants, US Soldier Killed In Afghanistan 
 
1/5/2009 10:49 AM ET(RTTNews) -  22 Taliban insurgents and a US soldier were killed in clashes in Afghanistan Wednesday, while five children died in a bombing in the east.

The Taliban insurgents were killed in a joint operation by Afghan and NATO-led German troops and US special forces, which began Wednesday in the northern province of Kunduz.

The dead included a local Taliban commander and Uzbek and Chechen fighters.

The children died in an explosion in Nuristan's Barg-e-Matal district, Governor Jamaluddin Bader said. 
 _________________________________________________________________________________________
 
22: 1 -   RIP to the US Soldier. 
 
 
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davod       11/5/2009 7:27:27 PM
I read about the reaction of local village elders - of course they should have attacked the tankers.  Who goes out to drain gas from a tanker at 2 in the morning.
 
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