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Real Punishment For Phony Veterans

May 22, 2009: After years of pressure from veterans, the U.S. government is finally cracking down on phony veterans, particularly those who claim to have been POWs (Prisoners Of War) . Many of these fakes go even farther, and claim to be POWS when they claim disability payments from the Veterans Administration. There is a financial incentive to make the claim, but for years, this has resulted in an obvious pattern of fraud.

There are only 661 officially recognized U.S. POWs from the Vietnam period. About 550 of those are alive, but the VA says they are paying disability payments to 966 "Vietnam POWs." It got worse after the 1991 Gulf War. There were 21 officially recognized POWs during that conflict, but the VA is paying disability to 286 Gulf War POWs. For years, the VA claimed that they checked out the records before recognizing all these phony POW vets. Once recognized as a POW by the VA, you have several financial benefits (like not having to make copayments for medical services). Thus the fake POWs are also guilty of stealing money from the government. Veterans groups believe the VA resisted dealing with this obvious fraud because of unwillingness to deal with the resulting bad publicity.

Veteran groups have, increasingly, been going after these phonies independently, and have unmasked over 2,000 POW poseurs. These groups have also exposed many more non-veterans who claimed service, including medals not earned. Some of these imposters even used fake documents to claim veterans benefits. But most just did it to impress friends and acquaintances.

Some of the most outrageous fakers pretended to be veterans of elite units (Special Forces, Delta Force, Rangers and SEALS). The boldest fakes pretend to have been U.S. Navy SEALs. The real SEALs are elite amphibious commandoes, and there aren’t many of them (fewer than a thousand on active duty at any one time.) There are only a few thousand real SEAL veterans out there. Yet in the last decade, over 25,000 people have been exposed as pretending to be former SEALs. There are two volunteer (AuthentiSEAL.org and VeriSeal.org) organizations out there that expose these phonies. Only one in 200 people examined by these organizations turn out of have been SEALs. Some of the phonies have threatened lawsuits, but none has ever followed through.

The number of phonies goes up whenever SEALs are in the news, either because of combat activity, or because of a movie or TV show about them. Many civilians accuse the authenticating organizations guilty of being vigilantes, as many people find nothing wrong in a little make believe. But SEALs, or any combat troops, operate in a very dangerous environment, and have to train hard to acquire the skills that civilians are so keen on pretending they have. The phonies are seen, by the troops, as dishonoring the effort and sacrifices of the real SEALs. Moreover, the phonies are often embarrassing specimens of humanity, who make the real SEALs look bad simply by association. So it’s not just a little harmless make-believe, it’s bad for the morale of people who risk their lives for all of us.

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Bob Cortez       5/22/2009 8:03:39 AM
People always think I am lying about what I did in the Navy, unless they have been in the military too.  When I worked at the NatWest (Molokai in the East River), one guy was AF supply but told the girly-girls that he jumped out of airplanes.
 
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MM2-CV60       5/22/2009 10:47:47 AM
I have run into a couple of guys who claimed to be green berets and delta force... my first question is what foriegn languages do you speak? From what I gather the green berets all speak a couple of languages... a fake will usually stutter and stammer and run with his tail between his legs... A fake seal I once met did not know anything about the navy... I am a Navy vet and he did not know anything about boot camp, ratings or any of the other USN lingo... but i agree that there should be severe punishment for someone pretending to be a vet let alone a POW.
 
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trenchsol       5/22/2009 12:19:50 PM
I am not an American and I don't quite understand the article. It looks like Veteran Administration is not able  to verify the claims of individuals for some reasons. Department of Defense should have accurate information on every individual involved, so there should be no problem. Is it possible that Department of Defense denies any information to Veteran Administration ?
 
Similar problem still exists here in Croatia, after the Homeland War in 90s. Croatian state was created during the war, and many things were not documented, because there was a lot of chaos. Many people went to war self organized, even bought and payed their own weapons and equipment. There were some paramilitary units, too. But, those were special circumstances.
 
United States are not supposed to be in such state of chaos, far as I know, and all the documentation and evidence should be present. So, why is so hard to verify if particular individual was involved with military or not, particularly those who are seeking benefits ?
 
DG

 
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Bulova       5/22/2009 2:57:24 PM
A couple of things to consider about fake veterans.
 
(1) You would be surprised to find out how many people cannot distinguish  between their fantasy life and their real life. I know I was.
 
(2) There are many people who give a lot of thought into gaming the system.
 
(3) As for the VA paying benefits to fake POWS and PTSD benefits to veterans who were never in combat it usually originates at the VA hospitals. A guy in for drugs/alcohol/mental problems gets an interview with a social worker (usually just out of college and NOT a veteran). He tells her his RAMBO story. The social worker slaps a POW/combat injury sticker on his case file and hands the file to the hospital data entry clerk. The clerk enters it into the hospital computer system and  a new POW is born. The vet then walks down the hall and files a claim for disability. The Regional Office calls for the hospital's progress notes and schedules the vet with a shrink (the shrink is NEVER a vet). The veteran tells the shrink the same horror story he told social worker. The shrink assigns the vet a medical diagnosis and sends  that and the social worker's progress notes to the Regional office. The claims examiner is supposed to check the vets DD214 and DOD military records, but he's under a quota to do a certain number of claims a day, so he doesn't. If the claims examiner does not set a follow-up review date, then no one will ever look at the vet's claims folder again.
 
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Bulova       5/22/2009 3:11:18 PM
A couple of things to consider about fake veterans.
 
(1) You would be surprised to find out how many people cannot distinguish  between their fantasy life and their real life. I know I was.
 
(2) There are many people who give a lot of thought into gaming the system.
 
(3) As for the VA paying benefits to fake POWS and PTSD benefits to veterans who were never in combat it usually originates at the VA hospitals. A guy in for drugs/alcohol/mental problems gets an interview with a social worker (usually just out of college and NOT a veteran). He tells her his RAMBO story. The social worker slaps a POW/combat injury sticker on his case file and hands the file to the hospital data entry clerk. The clerk enters it into the hospital computer system and  a new POW is born. The vet then walks down the hall and files a claim for disability. The Regional Office calls for the hospital's progress notes and schedules the vet with a shrink (the shrink is NEVER a vet). The veteran tells the shrink the same horror story he told social worker. The shrink assigns the vet a medical diagnosis and sends  that and the social worker's progress notes to the Regional office. The claims examiner is supposed to check the vets DD214 and DOD military records, but he's under a quota to do a certain number of claims a day, so he doesn't. If the claims examiner does not set a follow-up review date, then no one will ever look at the vet's claims folder again.
 
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Gerry       5/22/2009 9:29:57 PM
Its not the VA who have condoned the system, altho they have gone along with it. It was congress. During the 1990s congress was told of the large number of phoney PTSD's applieing for disability, the numbers were skyrocketing. Many from the Vietnam era.  It was getting known as an easy scam. Congress on the other hand after Gulf war 1, wouldn't touch it because of its political ramifications. The VA just continued to go along, and the problem has never been fixed.
 
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trenchsol       5/23/2009 1:10:12 PM

shrink is NEVER a vet). The veteran tells the shrink the same horror story he told social worker. The shrink assigns the vet a medical diagnosis and sends  that and the social worker's progress notes to the Regional office. The claims examiner is supposed to check the vets DD214 and DOD military records, but he's under a quota to do a certain number of claims a day, so he doesn't. If the claims examiner does not set a follow-up review date, then no one will ever look at the vet's claims folder again.


Shouldn't the social worker/examiner be liable for her/his lack of diligence ? They are, in fact, taking part in a criminal activity, right ?

Here, in Croatia, there is a Ministry of  Social Care  that takes care  of veteran benefits, and the ministry  is part of the same government  as Ministry of  Defense.  They  check records, but the records are, as I said before, not complete. There are cases when phony veteran bribes the clerk to obtain the benefits, which even might be life long in some cases. Unfortunately, today we have both, phony veterans with benefits and true veterans without them.
 
Yes, there are people here who live in illusions, and truly believe that they are special forces or intelligence service employees. Let me tell you a funny story of a guy I know, his initials are D.B.
 
D.B. did not want to go to war. He knew someone well connected and got some kind of paper that allowed him to stay at home. So far, so good, D.B. was not crucial to Croatian war effort, and he would do more good if he stayed away from everything. But, about a week later, D.B. proclaimed self a member of Military Intelligence with a rank of major. Nobody believed him, but nobody tried to argue with him, too. Two months later TV covered some promotions in Armed Forces, so D.B. promoted himself to a colonel and even bought a drink to everyone :-) A friend of mine, who is a military professional, checked a list of persons who are allowed to enter the premises of Ministry of Defense, and, what a surprise, D.B. was not on the list. Since then D.B. does not talk to any of us. 
   
DG
 
 
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Bulova       5/23/2009 2:01:39 PM
Ah, in America, bureaucratic screw-ups are not against the law. It's more of lack of management.
 
Certain classes of claims should have an automatic review. POW cases should be one of them. 
 
PTSD claims should document that the claims examiner  checked to see if the veteran actually saw any combat or experienced any verifiable stressful occurrences.
 

 
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kirby1       5/25/2009 3:54:38 AM
You are certainly right when you mention the way things should be. Those clerks should be held liable for their part in an active fraud. The phonies who collect the checks should be held liable for fraud as well.
 
Unfortunately, such is not the case. 

There is also the fact that the fraudsters are only the tip of the iceberg. Most of these phonies are merely people who claim to be POWs', SEALs', etc, to gain public attention and merit. They don't actually steal from the government, they claim to be veterans when they run for office, or write books or articles for magazines (Usually denouncing the military or the government). A lot of them just get thier paws on old uniforms, patches, and medals, and appear at protests and rallies, and join political groups.
 
The groups that are most damaged are private entities that want to help veterans. There's alot of good people and good private groups who do things to help disabled or homeless veterans. Those private groups can't necessarily afford to do deep background checks on thier clients are the phonies primary target. The problem with nice people who are on the level is, they have a hard time imagining the depths of perversion that notnice people can fall to.

Some folks were actually "In the Military" but skip the whole part about how they got booted out of basic training, or never got sent to the theatre, ("Vietnam Vets" who really supply clerks in Germany)
 
Occasionally and infrequently there is a situation that blurs the lines. If I never went to the Iraq, but I built bombs that were dropped on Iraqi targets, Am I an OIF veteran? I don't think so, some troops may say otherwise.  I have the integrity NOT to slowly morph that story from "I supported OIF," to "I am an OIF Veteran" to "No shit, there I was shooting it out with teh Hajis with SEAL Team 6!"
 
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arodrig6       5/29/2009 4:13:50 PM




Shouldn't the social worker/examiner be liable for her/his lack of diligence ? They are, in fact, taking part in a criminal activity, right ?




It would be hard for a social worker or psychologist to work with a patient and build an atmosphere of trust when they are also performing fact checking on everything the patient says.  Examiners are reviewers should be more diligent, but even there they are under time pressure. Plus, they probably tend to err on the side of leniency - records do get lost and people do get misclassified. It looks much worse to deny a legitimate POW or veteran services than to pay out to a few undeserved.
 
Not that that is a justification, just explanation. 
 
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