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Playing Rough To Keep The Americans Away

August 31, 2009: As China develops more powerful electronic devices, it has become determined to keep the details secret (so their electronic wonders will not be easily defeated in wartime.) To that end, they have requested that the United States eliminate the use of aircraft and ships to monitor activity along the Chinese coast. Most of this is electronic surveillance. Some is simply keeping an eye on what the Chinese are building (in the way of military facilities along their coast.) The U.S. recon operations take place in international air and sea space, but the Chinese know that this does not stop the Americans from picking up lots of useful information. China has implied that if the U.S. does not cease this snooping, there will be more confrontations with Chinese aircraft and ships. Similar confrontations took place with Russia during the early years of the Cold War. Dozens of American military personnel were killed. China is also trying, without success so far, to unilaterally modify international law, to extend its territorial waters (that other nations cannot enter).

But the effort is important. For example, last year the U.S. revealed what the American Navy EP-3 electronic reconnaissance aircraft was spying on, when it was clipped by a Chinese fighter in early 2001. The target was the new naval base China is building in the south. Three years ago, commercial satellite photos began to show details of a new naval base under construction at Yulin, near Sanya, on the southern island of Hainan (near Vietnam). The base has underground docking facilities for nuclear and diesel-electric subs and surface ships, created by tunneling into coastal hills.

Rumors of such a base have been circulating for the previous six years, apparently since locals began noticing all the construction activity, and the tight security around the site. The underground facilities not only protect the boats from air or sea based attack, but enable maintenance and modifications to be done in secret. Apparently back in 2001, the U.S. Navy believed there was enough electronic emissions coming from the construction site to justify sending an EP-3.

The U.S. intelligence community had picked up signs of work on the new base even before the locals began to chatter about something going on there. Several smaller naval bases and navy air fields already exist on Hainan Island, but the new base is shaping up as a major facility, one capable of supporting a much larger fleet than China now possesses. India is particularly concerned because the Hainan base is close to the Indian ocean, and areas where the Indian Navy has long been top dog. Many other nations note the proximity of the new base to the Straits of Malacca, the busiest shipping channel on the planet.

The Chinese also know that the U.S. Air Force and Navy are designing replacements for their current electronic warfare (EW) aircraft. The Navy wants to replace the EW version of its P-3 reconnaissance aircraft (EP-3), while the air force has several elderly aircraft using a wide array of sensors and radars. The navy has decided that sensors have become small enough, and cheap enough, that they can load up a Boeing 737 with radar, sensors, computers, mini-UAVs and the people needed to run it all, and perform functions formerly taken care of by several different aircraft. This new Super Snooper will be the EP-8. It will mount an AESA radar for scanning the sea (or land) below in great detail. Also mounted on (actually, built intp) the aircraft skin are dozens of antennas, for detecting any kind of nearby electronic emissions. The EP-8 would be used for a wider array of missions than its predecessor, the EP-3. In addition to the traditional trolling off the coast of, say, China, North Korea or Iran, to detect how the locals use their electronic devices (radars, communications, whatever), the EP-8 can also fly over combat zones seeking out cell phone, walkie-talkie or other radio use, and locating the people involved. The EP-8 carries missiles, as well as small UAVs that can be used to test enemy air defenses (which can result in a missile to take out the hostile radar).

China knows that all this new tech is coming, and wants to keep it as far away from their coasts as possible. The question is, will China risk war by playing rough to keep the Americans away.

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Babeouf       8/31/2009 6:35:07 AM
Just when you thought the American elites couldn't get any dumber. So now the American military
are chasing the dragon. Careful what you wish for. 
 
Quote    Reply

flyingarty    China   8/31/2009 11:09:16 AM

"The question is, will China risk war by playing rough to keep the Americans away."
 
No China is not that stupid.
 
Quote    Reply

FJV       8/31/2009 11:53:33 AM
The Chinese think different than we do.
 
For them there is a whole scale of using force between peace and war. They can move up and down that scale without a threshold between levels of violence. So 1 month they can shoot down your ELINT UAV in international airspace, the next month they can sign a friendly deal.

I would prepare for a roller coaster ride between different levels of force.
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Sty0pa       8/31/2009 3:05:19 PM
I'm very curious about the elint capabilities of the EP8...think about the consequences of, for example, a mothership EP8 dropping a wave of perhaps a half-dozen highly stealthed high-altitude cruising, low-altitude gathering UAVs programmed for autonomous navigation, elint gathering, then a burst-transmission of data before self destruction.
 
Those sorts of things could get to all SORTS of interesting places inside the maritime limits.
 
That's the sort of thing that would keep me up nights, as the security officer in charge of a new base.
 
Quote    Reply

VelocityVector    Sty0pa   8/31/2009 8:44:54 PM

Neat concept but not practicable.  UAVs like you describe will need to be so large that a single -8 couldn't carry many of them and their pricepoint will be great enough that we will want to reuse them.  Intead the -8 will serve as a hub and relay for UAVs betwixt and between other assets while operating as a powerful surveillance node itself.  Which is not to say the -8s won't operate expendable probes to query points of interest at relatively close distances to the -8s. 0.02

v^2

 
Quote    Reply

Gerry       8/31/2009 8:50:12 PM

Just when you thought the American elites couldn't get any dumber. So now the American military

are chasing the dragon. Careful what you wish for. 


The "American elites" are not stupid, and well recognize Chinas desire to control the seas around China. (China  just wants peace and security in our area because of our history)  This affects Guam, the Phillippines, Taiwan, Okinawa, as well as Japan and South Korea. The issue is about control of the seas, and China wants the US "out" so it can gain influence over the entire area.
 
Quote    Reply

RHylton       9/2/2009 8:48:09 PM

Just when you thought the American elites couldn't get any dumber. So now the American military

are chasing the dragon. Careful what you wish for. 


Not planning on having to "chase the Dragon" would be utter stupidity. China is going to become a regional, if not world, naval power in the future.
 
One could also say how "dumb" it is for China to attempt to challenge the worlds most powerful Navy.....
 
Quote    Reply

Photon       9/5/2009 4:09:44 PM
If China succeeds in reducing American maritime patrol by hassling American ships and aircraft in the international waters, then it wins a cheap victory.  Afterwards, the next move could result in changing the definition of sovereign waters by expanding its legal radius.  Notice that this does not cost China a whole lot and its progress is incremental.
 
China's game plan:  Incremental advance, redefine, another incremental advance, another redefinition, etc. ... and do so cheaply.
 
It is America's play, however:  Play aloof.  Perhaps the best US countermove is to maintain the same level of maritime patrols, and back them up with airpower as needed, while avoiding the extremes of chickening-out and trigger-happy.
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       9/30/2009 12:10:24 AM

Neat concept but not practicable.  UAVs like you describe will need to be so large that a single -8 couldn't carry many of them and their pricepoint will be great enough that we will want to reuse them.  Intead the -8 will serve as a hub and relay for UAVs betwixt and between other assets while operating as a powerful surveillance node itself.  Which is not to say the -8s won't operate expendable probes to query points of interest at relatively close distances to the -8s. 0.02


v^2




I was thinking the first two thoughts as well. Cool expansion to his post!
 
Btw., maybe they could be launched from submarines? Well I don't know what a -8 is, but hopefully it isn't too big.
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       10/1/2009 12:09:38 AM
 Well I don't know what a -8 is, but hopefully it isn't too big.

good luck launching a 4 engined transcontinental turbo prop from a sub...
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust    oops   10/1/2009 12:35:39 AM


 Well I don't know what a -8 is, but hopefully it isn't too big.

good luck launching a 4 engined transcontinental turbo prop from a sub...

and that was of course wrt the P3.

however, to be accurate for the pedants:

good luck launching a 2 intercontinental engined jet from a sub...

 
Quote    Reply





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