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The Ugly Duckling Gets Another Order

August 2, 2009: The U.S. Army has bought another 229 M1117 ASVs (Armored Security Vehicles). These can mount either 12.7mm machine-guns or Mk19 40mm automatic grenade launchers in their turrets. The vehicles cost about $874,000 each. Actually, 32 of these vehicles were the M1200 Armored Knight variant, which is equipped and used for calling in artillery fire (laser designator, thermal imager, GPS and digital communications to send data to guns or rocket launchers.)

The ASV was, in effect, one of the first MRAPs (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) to get to Iraq (although is no longer qualifies as a proper MRAP). Originally developed in the 1990s for use by MPs in combat zones, only a few were bought initially. It was found that for Balkan peacekeeping, existing armored vehicles were adequate, and that in the narrow streets of Balkan towns, the ASV was too wide to be very maneuverable. Then came Iraq, and suddenly, the ASV was very popular. The army got lots more because military police like these vehicles a lot. The MPs originally wanted 2,000 ASVs, but before Iraq, were told they would be lucky to get a hundred. Now the MPs get all they want.

The ASV is a 15 ton 4x4 armored car that is built to handle the kind of combat damage encountered in Iraq. The ASVs are, unlike armored hummers, built from the ground up as an armored truck. ASVs are 20 feet long and 8.5 feet wide, making them a bit larger than hummers. The ASV is heavy enough to survive most roadside bombs and keep going. The ASV is bullet, and RPG proof. The turret is the same one used on the U.S. Marine Corps LAV. When the marines went shopping for armored trucks, however, they passed on the ASV. This is believed to be mainly because most armored trucks have more room inside. The ASV carries a crew of three. Over 2,100 have been delivered (some to foreign customers) so far.

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gunner4       8/2/2009 1:56:51 PM
The M1117 ASV has BOTH an M2 .50 Cal. machine gun and a Mk 19 grenade launcher, because its turret is the same as the Marine Corps' AAV7A1
 
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doggtag       8/2/2009 3:41:11 PM
"Originally developed in the 1990s for use by MPs in combat zones, only a few were bought initially."
 
Ha ha, that's funny.
The ASV, M1117, or call it whatever you like, is no more a new vehicle design than some of these other MRAPs that are little more than re-launched, upgraded vehicles from ages ago.
In the case of the MRAPs, dig into the history of South Africa's fighting forces, the periods from the 1970s and 1980s.
You'll see trucks that are the base designs for vehicles like the "new" RG31, RG-33, and Buffalo.
In the case of the ASV/M1117, it goes back to the 1960s, with the Cadillac Gage/Textron design called the V100 series (includes V150, and a few nations designed their own variants, notably the Portugese Chaimite ).
 
New it's not.
Just a modernized version of an older design.
 
Wonder what other older designs the US will modernize and call the next great battlefield wonder weapon or vehicle....?
 
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The Drill SGT    V100++?   8/2/2009 4:45:31 PM
   You can see the lineage back from the V100 series armed Cars we used in Nam starting in 64-65.An evolutionary, not revolutionary improvement. 
 
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Chris       8/3/2009 10:33:53 AM

"Originally developed in the 1990s for use by MPs in combat zones, only a few were bought initially."

 

Ha ha, that's funny.

The ASV, M1117, or call it whatever you like, is no more a new vehicle design than some of these other MRAPs that are little more than re-launched, upgraded vehicles from ages ago.

In the case of the MRAPs, dig into the history of South Africa's fighting forces, the periods from the 1970s and 1980s.

You'll see trucks that are the base designs for vehicles like the "new" RG31, RG-33, and Buffalo.

In the case of the ASV/M1117, it goes back to the 1960s, with the Cadillac Gage/Textron design called the V100 series (includes V150, and a few nations designed their own variants, notably the Portugese Chaimite ).

 

New it's not.

Just a modernized version of an older design.

 

Wonder what other older designs the US will modernize and call the next great battlefield wonder weapon or vehicle....?


I took marketing when I was in college, and simple repackaging is sometimes all it takes to get product off the shelf.  When "transformation" became the big buzzword everthing became "transformational" even when it wasn't.  I've seen sales propaganda for the F-22 that made it sound like it was great for fighting terrorism!
The difference between the M1117 and the V100 is mostly the addition of a turret!  That doesn't make it new - but that doesn't stop the marketers from saying so.
 
Caveat Emptor!
 
Quote    Reply

doggtag       8/4/2009 5:53:39 AM
We've discussed this previously also: the ASV is not "RPG proof".
For reasons beyond me, I've yet to see any ASVs decked out in the bird cage slat armor like Strykers or the big wide slab panels adorning the sides of many an MRAP; perhaps the angles of the ASV make for good deflection?
 
As to being RPG proof: never. No chance in heaven or hell the AFV's skin can shrug off shaped charges designed to go thru at least half a foot (6inches/15cm) or armor.
General concensus was, there was, most likely, less stuff to destroy inside when the RPG's shaped charge jet pierced thru the armor (a lot of empty space around the crew positions, turret, and engine area.
Still, I don't want to be the volunteer who raises his hand to demonstrate just how RPG "proof" it is by setting inside an ASV whilst someone fires an RPG at it.
It's not necessarily that shaped charge jet itself that gets you, but the excess blast, overpressure, heat and spall fragments that get dumped inside the hull after the armor is breached. You don't actually need to get hit personally by the jet per se, same reason those RKG-3 shaped charge grenades have been such cause for concern: they weren't designed to go thru a lot of armor, but rather expel a lot of energy behind the armor once thru it, much to the dismay of the crew.
 
For its size and the firepower it brings, surprising that we don't hear of more ASV losses (apparently not a priority target by insurgents).
Instead, it seems to be a fanboy war about Strykers being less susceptible than Bradleys and other tracked AFVs.
But again, like I mentioned, where are all the ASVs with slat armor cages (like Strykers) and slab armor panels (like MRAPs)?
Haven't seen one yet in Kuwait or Tallil,
so they either are effective (that firepower scares off threats), or they aren't seen as a threat at all.
Maybe there's something to be said in being a relatively benign-looking smallish vehicle that hopes you don't attract the kind of attention that can easily breech your thin skin (and to think people debate the merits of light tanks as being unsuited for current battlefields...hmmm).
 
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